Neruda Interviews

Interview 4

By Sarah

What follows is a session I recorded of Dr. Neruda on December 31, 1997. He gave permission for me to record his answers to my questions. This is the transcript of that session. This was one of five times I was able to tape-record our conversations. I have preserved these transcripts precisely as they occurred. No editing was performed, and I've tried my best to include the exact words, phrasing, and grammar used by Dr. Neruda.

(It's recommended that you read the previous three interviews before reading this one.)

Sarah: As promised, one of the things I want to focus on in this interview is the Ancient Arrow site. From what you said the other day, the Ancient Arrow site was essentially stripped of its artifacts. Where are they now and what do you think the ACIO intends to do with them?"

Dr. Neruda: "As of the time of my defection, the site's antechamber and 23 sub-chambers were carefully measured, analyzed, and each of the artifacts were cataloged. All of the artifacts that could be taken from the 23 chambers were moved to the ACIO lab for rigorous testing. The initial hope was that they contained accessible technologies that could somehow accelerate the deployment schedule for BST. However, I think that expectation changed following the discovery of the 24th chamber".

Sarah: "You never really talked in any detail about the chambers before. What was so special about the 24th Chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "What was interesting about the chambers -- apart from the artifacts they contained -- was that the site was as sterile as an operating room, except the 23rd chamber. Remember that these chambers protruded outward from a central corridor that spiraled up through solid rock. From the top of the 23rd chamber to the antechamber below was approximately 50 meters. We knew there were 24 chapters or segments on the optical disc, but we assumed that the antechamber -- even though it didn't have any artifacts -- was included. Thus we falsely assumed that the 24 chambers were accounted for".

Sarah: "They weren't?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. There was another chamber that had been hidden".

Sarah: "How?"

Dr. Neruda "The 23rd chamber had a significant amount of rock debris on its floor. It had all the markings of being unfinished, as if the constructors had to leave suddenly or simply ran out of patience before they completed their mission. We invested a reasonable amount of time and analysis studying the walls and debris of the 23rd chamber, hoping to discern the methods of construction, but we never suspected that there was a hidden passageway beneath the debris on the floor of the chamber".

Sarah: "So, there was a trap door?"

Dr. Neruda: "Shortly before my defection, a trap door was discovered by some ACIO researchers who were conducting a form of x-ray photography of the interior of the site".

Sarah: "For what purpose?"

Dr. Neruda: "They were trying to determine if there were any structural deficiencies in the site that could cause instabilities for the site in the long-term. We had, in effect, broken the seal on this site and introduced a significant amount of stress to the structure. Fifteen, being the thorough person he is, wanted to be sure we hadn't inadvertently compromised the structural integrity of the site. He felt certain that the site's preservation was potentially critical".

Sarah: "Okay, so these x-rays showed a trap door to another chamber. How was it overlooked before? Was it completely hidden?"

Dr. Neruda: "Not really. We had been told to leave all the chambers as we had found them -- other than to remove the artifacts and catalog everything we found. What we didn't realize was that the six inches of rock chips on the floor of the 23rd chamber concealed a vertical passageway".

Sarah: "It went straight down?"

Dr. Neruda: "Correct. It dropped nearly 50 meters . . ".

Sarah: "But I thought the antechamber was 50 meters underneath the 23rd chamber".

Dr. Neruda: "It is, but not directly underneath. The 24th chamber is only separated by four meters from the nearest wall of the antechamber".

Sarah: "Was there a passageway between the two, or was the only entrance from the 23rd chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "The only entrance was from the 23rd chamber, which made it near-impossible to get to".

Sarah: "Why?"

Dr. Neruda: "Because the passageway was cut too small for an adult body, and it was a long distance to traverse".

Sarah: "With all your technology, couldn't you have made it wider?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was an alternative, but Fifteen didn't feel it was warranted".

Sarah: "Why not? It seems like a pretty important discovery -- maybe the key to the whole site".

Dr. Neruda: "The ACIO had technologies that allowed us to drop cameras down the passageway and photograph the entire chamber remotely".

Sarah: "What did you see?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was the largest of the 24 chambers -- in all dimensions. Its wall painting was the largest, and like the 23rd chamber, was oriented horizontally instead of vertically. There was a technology artifact that we removed from the chamber that, as far as I know, is, like all the others, inaccessible to the ACIO probes".

Sarah: "Other than the chamber being larger in scale, were there any other differences?"

Dr. Neruda: "It was very similar to the 23rd chamber in the sense that it was also unfinished in appearance, but it was about three times as large in volume. There were a series of glyphs incised on the wall opposite the painting that were organized in seven groups of five characters".

Sarah: "I know you showed me photographs of the chamber paintings, did I see this one?"

Dr. Neruda: "No".

Sarah: "What's it look like?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's the most abstract and complex of the collection, and consequently, hard to describe. Like all the chamber paintings, we invested considerable effort and time to decode the symbols and analyze the content of the painting, but we only had speculation as to its real purpose".

Sarah: "Any hypothesis on why the 24th chamber was hidden?"

Dr. Neruda: "Remember that the site was interpreted by most within the Labyrinth Group as being loosely based on our human genome . . . "

Sarah: "Because of the helix shape?"

Dr. Neruda: "That and the fact there were 23 chambers -- the precise number of chromosomes -- or pairs of chromosomes in a normal human cell. These factors, along with some of the detail contained within the chamber paintings and philosophical text we decoded, led us to conclude that the site was designed to tell a story about the human genome".

Sarah: "Okay, but why was the 24th chamber hidden and how does that relate to the human genome?"

Dr. Neruda: "I don't know with certainty, but remember that the 23rd chromosome determines the sex of the individual. The wall painting from the 23rd chamber is the only painting that shows -- albeit abstractly -- the genitalia of both a man and a woman. We assumed that this was deliberate. The fact that the 23rd chamber was unfinished suggested that the 23rd chromosome was also somehow unfinished, implying that there may be some other function of the sex gene that has not been completed as yet".

Sarah: "But isn't the entire genome unfinished? I remember reading that 95% of the genome is unused. Isn't that true?"

Dr. Neruda: "It's true that the instructions contained within the genes are mostly unused, but the genes themselves, as far as their instruction set, are not incomplete so far as we know. There are, of course, genetic mutations that occur from time-to-time, but again these are not states of incompletion so much as spontaneous adaptation to genetic interfusion".

Sarah: "Then what's the case with the 24th chamber? Are there instances when some people have 24 chromosomes?"

Dr. Neruda: "First, it's 23 pairs of chromosomes, and yes, there are people who have an extra chromosome, but it's generally not desirable, and is often lethal. In our research, we've never seen 24 pairs of chromosomes in a healthy, normal human".

Sarah: "But isn't it possible that it's not about pairs of chromosomes? There aren't any pairs of chambers, so maybe they're talking about 24 chromosomes period".

Dr. Neruda: "This possibility was certainly explored".

Sarah: "And . . . ?"

Dr. Neruda: "There was no reliable evidence, so the theory was discounted".

Sarah: "So nothing human has 24 chromosomes or 24 pairs of chromosomes? Why would the WingMakers construct something so obviously genetic in its shape and make an error like this?"

Dr. Neruda: "No one within the Labyrinth Group believed there was an error. Chimpanzees, orangutans, and gorillas possess 24 pairs of chromosomes".

Sarah: "Apes?"

Dr. Neruda: "Any molecular biologist will tell you that our genome is a 98% match of the chimpanzee".

Sarah: "Are you suggesting that the WingMakers produced this site in homage to the chimp?"

Dr. Neruda: "No. I'm simply relating the truth. Until 1955 scientists believed that humans had 24 pairs of chromosomes just as the chimpanzee or gorilla, but then it was discovered that somewhere in time, humans fused two chromosomes into one . . . "

Sarah: "And how does this all relate to the discovery of the 24th chamber?"

Dr. Neruda: "It probably doesn't. The human genome is like a set of encyclopedias with 23 volumes. It's quite possible that the 24th chamber, in this case, is the equivalent of the index or navigation volume".

Sarah: "But it's not visible like the other 23 chromosomes?"

Dr. Neruda: "We thought there was significance in the fact that the 24th chamber was hidden, and was only connected by a narrow, vertical passage to the 23rd. It's possible, in theory, that the 24th chromosome isn't a molecular-based gene repository. There may be a genetic mutation that is being foreshadowed in our future, or the 24th chamber is a metaphor for a new functionality of the human species that is -- as yet -- dormant or non-coded".

Sarah: "So, what does Fifteen think it all means?"

Dr. Neruda: "ZEMI had done an exhaustive search of the variables, and I believe Fifteen had more or less accepted its most probable alternative, that the 23rd chromosome was destined to mutate and create or catalyze the creation of a 24th chromosome that would act as a navigation system or index for future geneticists".

Sarah: "And ZEMI deduced all of this from a single painting?"

Dr. Neruda: "ZEMI had 62 different analyses of the 24th chamber painting, and each of them had probabilities of over 40%. This is unheard of unless an object is coded in sufficient complexity, and this coding is consistently applied to produce a web effect of possibilities. This painting, along with the glyphs on the opposite wall, achieved that end. The ACIO calls this phenomenon, Complexity Interlocks, with factors on a scale of zero to one hundred. If an object or event has a CI of 15, it's considered a coded object. The artifacts of the 24th chamber had the highest CI of all the chambers 94.6. To put it into perspective, the next highest chamber, chamber six, had a CI of 56.3"

Sarah: "Why is that important?"

Dr. Neruda: "Because Fifteen looked at the 24th chamber as the key to understanding the Ancient Arrow site. ZEMI's analysis was very specific, much more so than I'm able to relate in this conversation".

Sarah: "Can you give me an example of how ZEMI determines this CI index?"

Dr. Neruda: "The painting or object is scanned and reduced to its digital components. Color, scale, position, shape, and repetition are all established and analyzed. For example, one of the abstract figures in the 24th chamber painting appears to be floating upside down, and happens to have 23 stars within its mid-section. ZEMI would associate significance to this, and this would become a thread of the web effect. ZEMI would continue to create these threads, looking for a consistent pattern. If a pattern emerges with sufficient mathematical coherence and context, it deduces that the object is designed for a purpose".

Sarah: "In other words, a higher CI indicates a higher purpose?"

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but especially if the distinction is significant as in the case of the 24th chamber".

Sarah: "If all these pieces are fit together, the picture that emerges is that the Ancient Arrow site was created as a metaphor of the human genome, and that it's predicting a mutation that will produce a 24th chromosome, which leads us right back to our hairy cousins. Wouldn't this be devolution?"

Dr. Neruda: "No".

Sarah: "Why not?"

Dr. Neruda: "The molecular environment of the 23rd chromosome is the most antagonistic and dynamic of all the human chromosomes. This makes it a cauldron for potential mutation. Molecular and evolutionary biologists are only now beginning to recognize this inherent reality of the 23rd chromosome.

"ZEMI's analysis was that the 24th chamber painting was concerned not with our sexual identity, as in the case of the 23rd chromosome, but our spiritual identity".

Sarah: "How so?"

Dr. Neruda: "It would take me at least twenty minutes to explain the rationale. Do you want me to proceed?"

Sarah: "Can you give me a summary?"

Dr. Neruda: "I'll try.

"There are several connections between the 23rd and 24th chambers; the most notable being that the 24th chamber is only accessible from the 23rd chamber. This suggests that the 24th exists as a result of the behaviors and conditions of the 23rd. In a sense, the tunnel connecting the two chambers is a birth canal, and the 24th chamber is the baby.

"Since the 23rd is the sex chromosome, that is, it determines the sexual and physical identity of the individual, its purpose is largely binary. It's quite logical to conclude that if it were to give birth to a new chromosome, it may have something to do with our spiritual identity, particularly in light of all the other information we have about the Central Race".

Sarah: "I get the feeling that you believe this".

Dr. Neruda: "I think it's a viable hypothesis, but the exact purpose of the Ancient Arrow site is yet to be determined with high confidence".

Sarah: "Are there any other sites similar to the Ancient Arrow site that the ACIO got involved in?”

Dr. Neruda: "No, nothing of this magnitude, but the ACIO involves itself in anything anomalous that may have ET influence".

Sarah: "Can you give me an example?”

Dr. Neruda: "There was an underground installation of engraved stones found in Peru in the mid-1960s. Some of the circumstances regarding this site are similar".

Sarah: "How so?”

Dr. Neruda: "It was an underground installation of considerable complexity and it contained tens of thousands of stones that had been intricately engraved with pictographs that depicted a vast historical record of earth and a pre-historical culture, all carved on a stone known as andesite.

Sarah: "And was this site also kept off the record?”

Dr. Neruda: "No, quite the contrary, but it was targeted with heavy disinformation and ultimately discredited by academic institutions that no doubt felt threatened by the revelation".

Sarah: "I still don’t see how a government organization like the ACIO can operate behind the scenes and our own elected officials be completely unaware of both its existence and agenda".

Dr. Neruda: "Not all of your elected officials are unaware of the ACIO, but you’re right about one thing they do not know its true objectives".

Sarah: "So who knows and who doesn’t?”

Dr. Neruda: "It’s not such a simple thing to provide you with a list of names. Those who know, and are elected officials, form a very short list”

Sarah: "How short?”

Dr. Neruda: "I would prefer not to say at this time, only that it is less than ten in number.

"The world body politic is not divided into republicans and democrats or liberal and conservative parties. They are divided into a stratification of knowledge and vital intelligence. The financial oligarchy of the secret network I mentioned last week possesses superior knowledge, some of which it shares with the military force and some of which it shares with the Isolationist forces.

These three forces are the principal way the world is organizing itself, and the presumed alpha organization is the Incunabula because they control a dominant share of the world’s money supply and hard assets".

Sarah: Okay, stop a moment because I did some research since our interview Saturday, and learned a little bit about the organization called the Illuminati. Is this the same organization you’re now referring to as the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. The Illuminati is part of the secret network, but it’s not the alpha organization. The Illuminati is affiliated with other blueblood organizations, mostly originating from European roots, but its goals and objectives are not aligned to the Incunabula".

Sarah: "In what way, because from my reading it seemed like it was the secret network you were referring to".

Dr. Neruda: "First, you need to understand that the secret network, as I was referring to, is loosely assembled and not well aligned because of competing agendas. Nonetheless, there is a sense of camaraderie between some of the more powerful groups mostly because they share an elite status in business, academia, or government.

"However, these groups are generally designed to help its members build greater wealth and influence through the members’ network of business and government contacts. It is somewhat comparable to a high-powered networking organization".

Sarah: "Are you sure we’re talking about the same organization?”

Dr. Neruda: "There are many stories about the Illuminati that are based more on legend than evidence. Too many conspiratorial objectives are credited to them, and they are not organized in this way. Their leadership is too visible and carefully scrutinized by the media. When you have this condition, you can, in most instances, dispel the notion that global, conspiratorial objectives are in the works".

Sarah: "What about the occult references to the Illuminati? Are they true?”

Dr. Neruda: "The supposed leaders of the Illuminati are not occultists or Satan worshippers as they are sometimes accused. Again, this is conspiracy theory run amok, usually by those who seek to define enemies that can embody Lucifer, which in their mind is synonymous with the occult. The Illuminati, while it exists as an elite organization, is made up of men and women that do not conform to one belief system. The spiritual beliefs of their members are not used as criteria to acquire membership. What’s important is a member’s personal network of contacts".

Sarah: "But don’t they have a tremendous influence on politics?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, they have influence, as do the Masons, and Skull and Bones, and twenty-seven other organizations that make up this loose-knit network of the elite, but the people who control the master plan are not directly affiliated with any one of these thirty organizations.

"The reality is that these organizations really operate in one of three forces that do have alignment under the controlling hand of the Incunabula".

Sarah: "So you’re saying that within these three forces the world’s political stage is organized, and the group with the most money also has the best knowledge and basically controls the other two groups?”

Dr. Neruda: "The Incunabula doesn’t dictate to the other two forces. It strategically releases information that lures the two forces in the direction it wants them to go.

"You can look at these three forces as part of an equilateral triangle, with the Incunabula at the apex, and the Global Military Force at one base and the Isolationist Force at the other. This is the real structure of global power".

Sarah: "I’m not clear about the different objectives of these three forces".

Dr. Neruda: "The Incunabula is concerned with the globalization of monetary channels and vital supplies like petroleum and natural gas; the Military Force is concerned with spreading and preserving democratization throughout the globe, and in so doing, protecting the self-interests of the dominant superpowers of America and Western Europe; and the Isolationist Force is focused on industry and wealth building for its citizens at the state level".

Sarah: "But how does the Incunabula lure these other two forces to do its bidding? Can you give me an example?”

Dr. Neruda: "Why do you think Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait?”

Sarah: "To grab its oil wells and make a lot of money".

Dr. Neruda: "On the surface that is close to the truth. Following the Iran-Iraq War, Saddam had depleted a good deal of his country’s wealth, and to be sure, he was interested in the wealth production of Kuwait, but he also knew that his military was not designed to invade and annex countries, and he was aware that the superpowers would protect their interests in Kuwait.

"Saddam had a real dilemma, he had upwards of a million soldiers that were without jobs after the Iran-Iraq War and there was no place within Iraq’s broader economy to absorb these men. The Military Force was aware of Saddam’s dilemma, and, through a consistent disinformation campaign by the Military Force, Saddam was led to believe that he would be allowed to invade Kuwait without superpower retaliation.

"There are high level operatives within the Military Force that are also the eyes and ears of the Incunabula. It was well understood that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that it had developed during the course of its war with Iran. The Military Force saw this as a destabilizing element of its long-term policy to bring democracy American-style to the oil-producing region.

"The Incunabula does not have control of the Middle East oil. It is the only vital asset in which they do not exercise prime authority. Saddam Hussein was seduced by disinformation to attack Kuwait so that the Military Force could with the whole world looking on dismantle Iraq’s defenses. This was a staged event of global impact exercised by the Incunabula and carried out by the Military Force completely unaware that they were being lured into this conflict in the same way as Iraq".

Sarah: "And all because some elite trillionaires want to control the world’s oil supply?”

Dr. Neruda: "It’s much more complex than that, though that is a part of the equation. I’m not sure how much you want me to go into it".

Sarah: "It’s hard to stop after you drop this revelation on me. Where is this all headed… I mean what is the end-goal of the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: "Do you mean in the context of the Middle East?”

Sarah: "Yes".

Dr. Neruda: "They want to control crude oil production. They want to exercise authority over this critical asset that is so fundamental to shaping world economies. They have controls over refining and the distribution of end products, but they lack control over the production, particularly in the Middle East. This is the fundamental goal, but it’s surrounded by the tributary objectives of bringing a Western culture to the region and slowly, but surely, homogenizing the world’s culture. They want this global culture as a framework in which to create global regulation".

Sarah: "And how long will this take… assuming they’re successful?”

Dr. Neruda: "From the perspective of the ACIO, it has a probability of occurrence no more than 35% within the next 10 years and jumps to a 60% probability in 20 years. Thereafter, it becomes more probable with each passing decade, until it reaches near-certainty by the year 2060".

Sarah: "And when you say ‘global regulation’, what do you mean?”

Dr. Neruda: "The ability to regulate the vital resources of the planet as a singular, global political body".

Sarah: "What makes this such a critical goal of the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: "The diminishing oil and natural gas supplies. These are non-renewable energy sources, and what required a billion years to create 3.2 trillion barrels of useable oil has taken 110 years to reduce to 1.8 trillion barrels. The planet’s oil supply is its economic lifeblood. As this diminishes, so does the economic system in which the world’s people live. As the economic conditions erode, instability arises, and if left unchecked, chaos ensues".

Sarah: "Again you’re saying that this is all about oil?”

Dr. Neruda: "Try to understand that to me it’s astounding that this isn’t obvious. Anyone who knows the condition of the world’s oil supply can perform simple extrapolations and conclude that the world is approximately fifty years away from oil depletion, and that assumes you use the more optimistic analyses. On the pessimistic side, it could be as little as twenty-five years".

Sarah: "How can that be? I don’t recall anything being said about this in the media. I would think this would be a huge story if it were that obvious and that ominous".

Dr. Neruda: "There are many versions of this story that circulate in the media, but they never quite capture the attention of the mass media and the masses because they deal with the distant future a topic not held in high regard by citizens in love with their Western lifestyles. Nevertheless, this future is precisely where the Incunabula place their focus because this is what determines the tactics of the present day.

"The depletion of the world’s oil supply, coupled to the growth in human population, is the dominant influence that is shaping the policies of the Incunabula and its timetable".

Sarah: "So the agenda of the Incunabula is to control the diminishing oil supply in order to do what?”

Dr. Neruda: "At the highest levels of the Incunabula, the planning horizons are typically twenty to one hundred years, depending on the issue. They are well aware that as the oil supplies diminish, oil will become increasingly more difficult to extract from the planet’s reservoirs, and consequently, require at minimum, a thirty percent delta in refining costs. This will have a profound effect on price, which can have the effect of producing a persistent recession in the world’s economy".

"The planners of the Incunabula believe that by consolidating control of the oil supply and its distribution it is the best way to impose rationing at a global level without setting off Armageddon".

Sarah: "It’s really that serious?”

Dr. Neruda: "I don’t mean to sound like an alarmist, but this is the fundamental problem that the world must address in the 21st century. The brightest minds of our planet are well aware of this and have known this for twenty years or more".

Sarah: "Why then aren’t the leaders of the world, and the brightest minds, working on alternative energy sources?”

Dr. Neruda: "In some instances they are. There’re several alternative energy sources that are under consideration some are not even released to the public at this time because they stem from technologies that also carry great potential as weapons.

"But the bigger issue is how to change the energy system of our modern-day civilization from petroleum to a new energy source, or perhaps to change the manner in which we live in other words, our oil dependent lifestyle".

Sarah: "Why is that such a big deal? I would think that as the world wakes up to the reality of dwindling oil supplies it would be very receptive to a new energy source".

Dr. Neruda: "Have you ever heard the quote by Machiavelli about the difficulty of changing a system?”

Sarah: "I don’t think so".

Dr. Neruda: "He wrote, ‘There is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than the creation of a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old system and merely lukewarm defenders in those who would gain by the new one’".

Sarah: "Okay, so this requires a lot of preparation and planning, and probably persuasion. But what choices do we have?”

Dr. Neruda: "None. This is the realism of the next fifty years".

Sarah: "I presume the Incunabula plan to orchestrate this change of systems. Am I right on that?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. As I said earlier, they believe the global regulation of energy resources and the ability to manage population growth are the convergent issues of our time that if managed properly can avert Armageddon".

Sarah: "You’ve said that word twice tonight Armageddon. What do you mean by that? Are you talking about World War III?”

Dr. Neruda: "Armageddon is defined by the ACIO as the chaos of humanity. It is the time when humanity plunges into chaos and the interfaces of global commerce, communication, and diplomacy are destroyed in favor of national self-preservation. If this were to happen, weapons of unusual power could be used to destroy thirty percent or more of the human population. This is the definition that we don’t like to talk about, but it’s well known within the ACIO as a possibility in the 21st century".

Sarah: "So I assume you have your probability forecasts for this as well. Right?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "And what are they, dare I ask?”

Dr. Neruda: "I’d prefer not to say. They aren’t really relevant anyway because they fluctuate based on world events".

Sarah: "But this is what the Incunabula’s planners are trying to steer clear of?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. This consumes their agenda more than any other issue".

Sarah: "What other organizations are consumed by this agenda?”

Dr. Neruda: "There are none".

Sarah: "What?”

Dr. Neruda: "This agenda is unique to the Incunabula because they’re the only organization that is focused squarely on averting this particular crisis condition based on the convergence criteria I stated earlier".

Sarah: "You mean they’re the only organization that’s worried about Armageddon as it relates to dwindling oil supplies and population increases?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "But you’re not telling me that other organizations aren’t worried about World War III or Armageddon, how ever you define it. Right?”

Dr. Neruda: "Every nation’s leadership is concerned about these issues, but it’s by no means the focus of their agenda. It is a small, compartmentalized component of their agenda.

"This is precisely why Fifteen is involved with the Incunabula’s planners, the threats to the human race are both real and persistent, and with each passing decade the conditions are only growing more fertile for fragmentation and chaos the very kind you would observe in tribal warfare. There is no fundamental difference".

Sarah: "And the leaders of the Military Force know about this objective?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. They have their own agenda, which is related, but quite different as well. They don’t aspire to regulate oil production; they intend to defend its availability and influence its price as a result. They’re not concerned with globalization as it relates to economic or cultural platforms, but rather, they’re concerned with exporting democracy in order to ensure stabilization in the region, and eradicate instability in the form of terrorists and dictators alike".

Sarah: "But that seems at odds with everything I’ve heard about the military".

Dr. Neruda: "In what way?”

Sarah: "You make it sound as though the Military Force is trying to bring stability or peace, when everything I’ve ever read implies that the military feeds off of conflict and instability. If the world is at peace, then the military becomes a simple police force, its power is reduced and its budgets are slashed".

Dr. Neruda: "I understand your question. However, the Military Force is not the same thing as the military. While it is very pro-military, it operates in a longer planning horizon than military personnel. The Military Force is made up of high-level politicians, business people, intelligence members, academics, think tanks, and so on. Its members are from the United Kingdom, America, Germany, Canada, Australia, Israel, and many other countries. Its cohesion, as a group, is not so much a function of formal structure and meetings, but rather it’s by publishing classified papers that are shared among its elite members. These papers define the platform, goals, long-term objectives, and essentially map out the strategy and tactics by which the Military Force intends to execute its plan.

"The Military Force is working on hybrid defensive and offensive weapons that relate to space, bio-weapons, the Internet, and other environments that are as yet not viewed as battlefield arenas. They would contend that R & D budgets should be increased in order to develop these new weapons in order to secure the rights of free people to live without fear of preemptive attack. They intend to remove this reality from the face of the earth and at the same time, propagate democracy".

Sarah: "But isn’t this a noble goal?”

Dr. Neruda: "Their goals are not necessarily misguided, but their methods to achieve these goals are. This is all about projecting power, and, as a consequence, dictating the prevailing political platform by which the world achieves peace. It is enforced peace. It is peace through power and manipulation".

Sarah: "But it’s still peace and it’s still democracy. It’s certainly better than the alternative of wars and anarchy or dictatorship".

Dr. Neruda: "There are other means to achieve the same end".

Sarah: "You said that the budget for military spending would only increase over time if the Military Force has its way. How would that happen amidst world peace?”

Dr. Neruda: "New threats will be determined that will create this need even though our countries of the world are at peace".

Sarah: "Are you talking about ETs again?”

Dr. Neruda: "Among other things. China will likely be the last island of opposition that the wave of democracy will land upon, but when it does, the Military Force desires to have unique weapons at its disposal in order to swiftly bring the changes it seeks. Bio-weapons will likely be the choice”

Sarah: "How is that possible when the U.S. has banned bio-weapons?”

Dr. Neruda: "Unfortunately the discoveries in the human genome are too compelling for the Military Force to ignore as it pertains to bio-weapons development. Research is already underway, and has been for two years, to develop bio-weapons that target certain genomes indicative of a specific race".

Sarah: "Like Chinese?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but it doesn’t mean the weapon would ever be deployed. It would simply be a known capability of the Military Force and that alone would make the change of regime irresistible".

Sarah: "I have to stop here and make a confession. Part of me wants to cry when I hear this and bury my head in a pillow, and part of me wants to keep asking more questions. I’m really torn on this one… I don’t think I want to talk about this anymore. Okay?

Dr. Neruda: "I’m only answering the questions you ask of me as honestly as I can".

Sarah: "I know, and I’m not complaining about you or your answers really. I just needed to say what I was feeling".

Dr. Neruda: "I understand".

Sarah: "Do you want to take a break and stretch your legs?”

Dr. Neruda: "I’m fine, but if you want one, I’ll be happy to take a stretch".

Sarah: "No, I’m fine…

"Tell me more about the Isolationist Force. What’s their story in all of this?”

Dr. Neruda: "Again, I don’t want you to think that the Military and Isolationist Forces are formal groups that have memberships and party platforms. They are informal, tacit coalitions at most, and they operate through the well-placed leadership of Incunabula operatives. Also, it is important to remember that they’re all part of the triad of leadership that the Incunabula have forged over the last fifty-seven years.

"In the case of the Isolationist Force, it’s the least organized of the three forces. It’s designed to spur economic policies and activities that generate wealth for the elite class throughout the world. As a force it is concerned with domestic state issues that drive economic growth and vitality. Its focus is to influence local, state and national governments to facilitate commerce".

Sarah: "Am I correct in thinking that Republicans are more affiliated with the Isolationist Force?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. These three forces are not affiliated with any party or political organization. Someone can be aligned with both the Military and Isolationist Force and not have any conflict doing so. They are not antagonistic. They’re compatible forces. Also, these forces are not exclusively American. They are global forces albeit with dominance from American and European interests, but they’re not party affiliations like democrats and republicans, nor are they state-sponsored in any way".

Sarah: "If the oil production is in the hands of the Incunabula, what will happen to the Arab state regimes that currently hold this power?”

Dr. Neruda: "It depends on the regime. The Incunabula is expert at influence through financial services and legal maneuvering. They will assert their influence slowly, gradually, and in a manner that will catch the royal families and cartel by surprise. Their patience is unmatched, and they operate on multiple levels of influence, which is why they win nearly every time.

"Even at the present time many of the royal families exert influence in domestic affairs, but not oil production. They reap the rewards of the oil financially, but others within their regimes are truly operating the production and interacting with the cartel, developing the core relationships of trust and influence. These are the ones that the Incunabula bring into their fold, and slowly win over as operatives in their plan. The Military Force, at the appropriate timetable, will overturn the regimes in conflict with the plan, and those regimes that are friendly, will be allowed to retain their domestic presence and influence. These are carefully orchestrated events".

Sarah: "And once the Incunabula has control over oil production, what then?”

Dr. Neruda: "The dismantling of hard currency. The Incunabula desires to have an electronic currency because it tracks everything and enables a more thorough analytical insight into the affairs of the individual".

Sarah: "So what do they want to do with all this information?”

Dr. Neruda: "They want to observe patterns and manipulate events in order to protect their dominance as a leadership body, and, as I said earlier, they want to define the new systems and manage system change. Once this dominance is perceived as reaching a critical mass, the Incunabula plans to create a global body of governance that brings stability to Earth and a set of policies that aid humanity at large".

Sarah: "Again you’re telling me that their goal is to help humanity, but I find it hard to believe".

Dr. Neruda: "In a way it is the only way they can retain power. If they concentrate wealth and services too much, they will lose control of the population they seek to govern. Rebellion is never far away when empty stomachs grumble in unison".

Sarah: "How will they dismantle our hard currency?”

Dr. Neruda: "There will be a gradual de-valuation of the stock markets worldwide. Americans in particular have become accustomed to easy money production within the stock markets, as well as lavish lifestyles. This will not be permitted to continue indefinitely. Recessions will occur in waves until the value of currency is called into question. This will begin in third world countries first, and as these become the initial victims of feeble economic policies, the Incunabula will essentially force these countries to sell their assets at rock bottom prices in return for helping them out of economic crisis.

"In the best of times, the world economy is a fragile patchwork of economic systems that run at different rates without a smooth interface or a macro system in which to operate. In the worst of times, it is a house of cards vulnerable to the faintest of winds. Hard currency and the monetary system that supports it will become a scapegoat of the economic slowdown, and electronic currency will increasingly become the solution to the general malaise of the global economy".

Sarah: "I’m not an economist so I don’t even know what questions to ask, but it leaves me with a queasy feeling in my gut. I get the feeling that there’s only one real power in the world and it’s the Incunabula, and we’re all just puppets of this elite group of moneymen. Isn’t that pretty much the subtext of all your comments here?”

Dr. Neruda: "No, not at all, but I can understand how you arrive at that conclusion given that we’ve been focused on the Triad of Power, or TOP, as we refer to it within the Labyrinth Group. TOP is a reality on earth, and it probably will be for many generations to come, and it’s certainly in the best position to dominate world affairs and development, but there are other powers that can intervene and bring fresh opportunity to the world’s people".

Sarah: "Like religious powers?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, that’s one, though they will never rival the Incunabula in terms of impacting on world affairs".

Sarah: "So who’re you talking about? Give me some names or examples".

Dr. Neruda: "The rise of personal computers and the Internet was never intended to occur according to the Incunabula. It was one of the developments that genuinely surprised the planners within the Incunabula and proved to be a very vexing issue for nearly a decade. Computing power was supposed to remain in the hands of the elite. The Internet grew organically and at a pace that no one thought possible, and it caught the Incunabula completely off guard".

Sarah: "So technology is a power that frustrated the plans of the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: "It’s one example".

Sarah: "I imagine the ACIO is another?”

Dr. Neruda: "The single greatest weakness of the Incunabula is its lack of scientific expertise within the ranks of its leadership. While it has technical and scientific members in special projects within the Global Military Industrial Complex, they are not leaders, and it is the leadership of the Incunabula that establishes its agenda".

Sarah: "But I thought you said that Fifteen was part of the Incunabula".

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but the ACIO is simply seen as a resource to the Incunabula. Fifteen is perceived as an anarchist whose vision could never be aligned with the leadership of the Incunabula. They don’t even identify with his vision".

Sarah: "If the Incunabula relies so heavily on ACIO technology, and they need scientific leadership, why don’t they replace Fifteen and place someone they can control better?”

Dr. Neruda: "They originally tried to have a Director who would be more compliant, but it didn’t succeed".

Sarah: "How do you mean that?”

Dr. Neruda: "One of the first Directors of the ACIO was a member of the Incunabula’s Military Force and was very much an insider in terms of working with some of its higher ranking leaders, especially in America".

Sarah: "Can you disclose his name?”

Dr. Neruda: "Vannevar Bush".

Sarah: "How do you spell his name?”

Dr. Neruda (Spelling it out.)

Sarah: "Is he related to President George Bush?”

Dr. Neruda: "No".

Sarah: "So he ran the ACIO when it was still in its infancy?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "What happened to him?”

Dr. Neruda: "He was too visible, and it was rightly feared that he would not be able to retain secrecy".

Sarah: "Why?”

Dr. Neruda: "Dr. Bush was a gifted individual who exercised both technical vision and leadership skills. He had access to the leadership of the government and the Incunabula. He could manage a large team of scientists and engineers as well as anyone could. He essentially built the infrastructure for military research, but his celebrity status was troublesome to the founders of the Incunabula".

Sarah: "Give me a sense of the timetable because I've got to admit I’ve never heard of this man".

Dr. Neruda: "It was right near the end of World War II that Dr. Bush was asked to head up a team of research scientists that had been assembled from the NDRC and SPL to reverse-engineer a recovered alien spacecraft that had been recovered in 1940 off the coast of Florida. These were actually top scientists from the newly formed ACIO. The spacecraft had been placed in cold storage because of World War II. As the war ended, Bush became privy to this discovery through his network and offered his leadership to the project. As I understand it, he was just coming off the Manhattan Project when this opportunity presented itself".

Sarah: "So he was considered a security risk and that ended his tenure at the ACIO?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes.

"This reverse-engineering project was held in the highest possible secrecy. Dr. Bush ran the operation within the SPL through special funding from the OSS, which was the forerunner of the CIA. However, after a year’s time, little progress was made and there were rumors attributed to Bush that alien spacecraft consumed his agenda.

"Bush reported directly to James Forrestal, who at the time was heading up the Navy, but shortly thereafter became the first Secretary of Defense. Truman was president.

"The spacecraft that had been recovered was sufficiently intact to conduct reverse-engineering studies on its propulsion system, which was the most critical knowledge that Forrestal hoped to extract from the project".

Sarah: "What year are we talking?”

Dr. Neruda: "This would have been between 1945 and 1946".

Sarah: "So what happened?”

Dr. Neruda: "Bear in mind that my knowledge of these events is based on my study of the ACIO archive. I wasn’t personally involved in any of these happenings, so I’m not vouching for their absolute accuracy".

Sarah: "Understood".

Dr. Neruda: "Dr. Bush was asked to replicate the propulsion system of the recovered craft in 12 months, and was given the resources of the ACIO in order to do so".

Sarah: "And did he succeed?”

Dr. Neruda: "Only partially. The electromagnetic fields were not fully replicated in terms of their sustained intensity levels in metals because of electron drift, which, and I’m struggling to keep this in layperson’s terms, were the primary reason it failed. Nonetheless, there were prototypes built that replicated aspects of the alien craft’s propulsion system, and these were sufficient to galvanize funding and support for the ACIO".

Sarah: "Then why didn’t Dr. Bush join the ACIO?”

Dr. Neruda: "He knew it would require that he go underground and essentially become anonymous. He didn’t want anonymity because he was a prodigious inventor and liked the limelight accorded him from government officials as well as the scientific community at large. Also, I don’t think the head of the OSS thought his mental capabilities were sufficient to the task. Bush was a great organizer of talent, but he lacked the commanding intellect in physics to lead the ACIO as it was envisioned in those days".

Sarah: "How many people knew about this project?”

Dr. Neruda: "I’m not sure. Perhaps five or six knew the total scope of the project and another fifty knew elements of the project. It was, as I said before, a very well guarded secret".

Sarah: "How do you keep something like this a secret?”

Dr. Neruda: "There are entire departments within our government that have responsibility for this. It’s a very well engineered process that includes legal contracts, clear penalty reminders, and known deterrence factors that include very invasive technologies. In the worst case, if vital information was disclosed, a different but related department would step in that would masterfully spread disinformation. It was, and still is, virtually impossible to bring this information to the public".

Sarah: "They had invasive technologies even in 1945?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. While the invasive technologies were more crudely applied, they were certainly effective. There was nothing more vilified in these undisclosed organizations than traitors. The entire organizational culture was designed to reward loyalty and severely punish disloyalty in any form".

Sarah: "I want to switch topics for a moment. It seems that we’re in a new stage of world peace and economic stability, but when I hear you talk, it seems that this just isn’t possible given the nature of the Incunabula and the triad of power that you were talking about earlier. Is this true?”

Dr. Neruda: "It is an illusion. There may be lulls in the movements of war, but look at the past one hundred years. Isn’t it an assemblage of wars?”

Sarah: "And all because war feeds the triad of power as you call it?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. There are forces that truly believe in good and evil. In their view, countries like people are essentially cast into three categories good, neutral, and evil. Those that are good must dominate the world political structures and ensure that those that are evil are identified and reduced to a non-threat status".

Sarah: "But the cold war is over, right? The Soviet Union is no more, and what’s left of it seems more or less friendly to the interests of the free world. Isn’t this true?”

Dr. Neruda: "When power is concentrated in a single person, and that country or organization develops long range missile technology, it immediately becomes a target for concern within the intelligence community".

Sarah: "And am I correct in assuming that the intelligence community you’re referring to is global and managed by the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, but it is not formally managed by the Incunabula".

Sarah: "I understand, but the results are the same, right?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "I apologize for the interruption".

Dr. Neruda: "The perceived enemy is missile technology in the hands of a concentrated power. There are many, many countries that have this technology so it ensures distrust. Organizations like the U.N. (United Nations) are not sufficiently empowered to deal with these threats, so multilateral coalitions are developed between nations to deal with the perceived threats, often completely undisclosed to the public.

"Iraq is a perfect example. North Korea is another, but it lacks the strategic geography to place it on the top of the list. So, geography also plays a central role in this assessment".

Sarah: "So essentially the world is coalescing into three camps. I understand that, but who determines who is evil, neutral, and good? I mean isn’t this a terribly subjective call?”

Dr. Neruda: "Whoever exerts the greatest global leadership in terms of projecting military force, economic vibrancy, and foreign policy makes this determination. And yes, it is certainly subjective, but it’s precisely why the U.S. has adopted its imperialist attitude. It wants to define good and evil for the world, and in so doing, it can more effectively export its own definition of peace and democracy".

Sarah: "Sounds so simplistic when you put it those terms".

Dr. Neruda: "It’s a natural outgrowth of how a state engineers its power. The state requires its enemies in order to convince its citizens to accept its authority over their lives. The greater the fear the state is able to provoke in the hearts and minds of its citizens, the more power its citizens are willing to give to it in order to protect them from its enemies. All states, to varying degrees, do this".

Sarah: "Are you saying that the U.S., just to pick an example, engineers its enemies? You’re really saying that America creates its enemies in order to increase its power domestically and internationally".

Dr. Neruda: "I don’t mean that the U.S. literally creates its enemies. The U.S. has potential adversaries in many parts of the world. Its policy of military presence as a global protector is all that’s required to create enemies. Its forceful export of its political belief system is also troublesome to many countries that see American interests as a prelude to cultural colonization".

Sarah: "Because we’re the only remaining superpower?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. It’s because the U.S. has a global military presence and economic lever that it wields with relative virtuosity. It is skillful at aggression without appearing aggressive. It protects and defends, and sometimes it will do this in a pre-emptive strike and sometimes in a reactive countermeasure that is usually at a force response that is several fold the original intensity. America’s self interests have become the standard of the free world, and there are those who fear it will dominate to the point of imperialism".

Sarah: "How does all of this fit into the work of the Incunabula or the ACIO for that matter?”

Dr. Neruda: "The Incunabula uses the U.S. as a force for globalization. It is the lead horse pulling the nation states of the globe into a common economic and political platform.

"As far as the ACIO is concerned, it has thoroughly analyzed the various scenarios presented by U.S. global domination and find that there are only two scenarios in which the United States can achieve its ambitious aims without catalyzing a world war and plunging the global economy into a severe depression".

Sarah: "Can you disclose these?”

Dr. Neruda: "No".

Sarah: "Why?”

Dr. Neruda: "They are based on a mixture of remote viewing, advanced computer modeling, and preliminary BST tests. I am not willing to disclose this information at this time. Perhaps at a later date".

Sarah: "I fully realize that we’ve gotten completely off the subject, but you seem to be leading me into this conversation. I can’t help it".

Dr. Neruda: "I understand".

Sarah: "Are there plans for making this all happen? I mean does the Incunabula actually engineer the globalization or does it sort of happen as a result of a nudge here and a nudge there?”

Dr. Neruda: "It’s a carefully orchestrated process. The planning is deep, penetrating, and exhaustive. It is not flawless nor is it carried out with perfect precision. Nonetheless there is certainly a plan and it’s executed by the triad of power as I stated earlier".

Sarah: "And you’ve seen this plan?”

Dr. Neruda: "I know of it through the Labyrinth Group. Fifteen requires each of us to know these plans on an intimate basis".

Sarah: "Can you disclose any of this plan?”

Dr. Neruda: "I think I have been alluding it to it this interview".

Sarah: "Yes, but you haven’t been clear about how events will culminate in such a way that the Incunabula will rise to power".

Dr. Neruda: "It is not pre-ordained. There is no certainty in what I am about to disclose. It is a plan. Albeit a plan created by very ambitious and capable people".

Sarah: "Duly noted".

Dr. Neruda: "There are serious flaws within the global economy, and the United States will, within the next seven years, begin to express these flaws in ways that ripple through the globe and cause financial unrest. The best way to ensure that these flaws are controlled is to tighten corporate loopholes that allow greedy executives to exploit their shareholders, and to seize control over the price of oil".

Sarah: "Wait a minute, I thought the greedy executives were exactly the profile of the Incunabula. Why would they lock down on their own turf?”

Dr. Neruda: "The Incunabula leadership is not comprised of greedy executives. It is made up of anonymous individuals. They are not sitting on corporate boards. They are not the Bill Gates of corporate America, nor are they the Bluebloods of European royalty. They are anonymous, and through their anonymity they wield great power. They are the strategists of the triad of power who plot and plan at such a level as to make corporate executives and politicians seem like preschoolers fumbling to hold a pencil".

Sarah: "So if you gave me a name of the leader of the Incunabula, I couldn’t look him up. He doesn’t exist?”

Dr. Neruda: "That’s correct".

Sarah: "So these people are not really very different from those of you within the ACIO".

Dr. Neruda: "They are very different. They produce globalization and uniform economic and political platforms, while we produce breakthrough technologies. They practice hegemony, while we practice science".

Sarah: "I didn’t mean to offend you… I thought you said earlier that the Incunabula used White Papers and think tanks to promote its vision for the future".

Dr. Neruda: "No, it is the Military Force that does this. The Incunabula is multi-tiered, as I’ve said before. It produces ideas and frameworks that produce the right conditions for the think tanks and other forces of the elite power base to exert influence. It is a very complicated process. If you would like me to go into it, I will".

Sarah: "No, I sort of interrupted you. You were talking about the Incunabula’s plan".

Dr. Neruda: "They desire a paperless currency coupled to a global leadership, and to carry this out they require a restructuring or perhaps more precisely, a complete reengineering of resource and power sharing".

Sarah: "Can you elaborate on this a bit?”

Dr. Neruda: "The plan requires new leadership in the Arab states. There is general concern that the Arab states will consolidate much like Europe is in the process of doing, and new superpowers will be created out of this consolidation. Multiple superpowers make consolidation of the global economic platform a thorny proposition.

"Because of its natural aggression as a superpower, the United States is the spearhead of the Incunabula to usher in the required changes of their plan. It will be positioned to exert a strong military and cultural presence in the Middle East and Asia. Partly for oil considerations and partly for the purpose of gradually westernizing the indigenous cultures".

Sarah: "Hold on a second. Our military bases are as much for the protection of our allies as for ourselves, and as for culture, we may export our movies and pop stars, but other countries are just as eager to be trend setters in the culture game".

Dr. Neruda: "There’s a difference. The U.S. protects and defends because it can establish military bases in those regions after it is done defending. Agreements are made sometimes without the public’s knowledge to have military bases and protective forces therein for domestic peace issues and normalization. The U.S. has over 170 military bases on foreign soil. This number will continue to grow as dictated by this plan.

"In regard to the export of culture, yes, you are right, the U.S. is not alone in this, but it leads the way through its capitalistic leverage of pop culture. No one does this as well as American corporations. They have set the world standard for monetizing content and brands. Other countries mimic this standard and add their weight. Collectively, the culture of capitalism reaches the Arab nations, China, North Korea, Southeast Asia, and the people of these countries especially the new generations are seduced by its allure".

Sarah: "I can’t help but get the impression that you’re not very patriotic".

Dr. Neruda: "The plan I share with you is rooted in the success of the United States to secure unilateral superpower status by the turn of the century. The U.S. will, as a result, be required to assert itself because there will be many challengers and discreditors. However, in this process, it will increase its worldwide presence as the leader of the free world. This is the goal that many throughout the world hold dear to their heart, whether they voice this sentiment or not.

"I don’t hold any grudge against the U.S. for this assertion. Any nation would do the same thing if given the opportunity. The United States is relentlessly aggressive in all the important dimensions military, culture, capitalism, applied technology, foreign policy, space, economic policy, and intelligentsia, to name the most critical areas.

"In Nature, the alpha male dominates through strength, cunning, and aggression. It is no different in the world of humans and statehood. The alpha male also has a responsibility for protection and sustenance. And the Incunabula planners selected the U.S. as being the most suitable country to lead the pack of other nations to the global platforms it has designed and is readying".

Sarah: "Okay, it sort of makes sense, what you’re saying, but the Incunabula wants the U.S. to lead the world to a global community of free, democratic states with a global culture based on capitalism. How do they know the free world will elect them to govern them?”

Dr. Neruda: "They don’t. There are, as I’ve said many times here tonight, no guarantees. All I can say is that they don’t miscalculate very often, and when they do, they adjust to the changes presented them. Again, the planners of the Incunabula, the real architects behind these events, are not interested in being the leaders of earth in terms of visibility. They want to appoint the leadership while giving the world a sense of choice".

Sarah: "It’s very hard to imagine how the world would select one leadership. It sounds like something that is hundreds of years in the future if ever".

Dr. Neruda: "I understand your conclusion, but what seems implausible today can rapidly evolve if the proper conditions are created. This is precisely what the Incunabula are focused on above all else. They realize that this may not take place until the year 2040 or even later, but they are convinced that consolidation of power at a global level is necessary in order to prevent planetary destruction or what we talked about earlier as Armageddon".

Sarah: "What do you mean by planetary destruction?”

Dr. Neruda: "There are many decay forces that can take hold of a planet and cause its decline as a supportive living environment. In our interactions with extraterrestrials, this is a common theme that is expressed because this condition frequently accompanies the rise of post-modern civilizations.

"Human populations fragment across a planet, developing their unique cultures, language, economic systems, and state identities. Certain states have the good fortune of natural resources and some do not. As these natural resources of the planet are converted into commercial advantage, some states flourish economically and some flounder.

"As the stronger states begin to dominate the weaker, military forces and weapons are created. Applied technology becomes the ultimate weapon. If multiple super powers are allowed to develop they can bring destruction to the human populations of the planet. If population densities reach a critical level, it can have the same devastating effects.

"The human residents increasingly bring the planet under pressure. If left unchecked, the planet can reach a critical stage of destruction whereby human populations no longer find the planet a suitable habitat".

Sarah: "So you’re saying that the whole reason the Incunabula are engineering the globalization of earth is because they want to save earth from destruction?”

Dr. Neruda: "I will put it this way. The leaders of the Incunabula are very clear about the threats that earth will undergo in the 21st century. They believe their orchestration of human events better serves the human population than to leave it to the forces of competitive politics. They genuinely believe that the self-interests of the states will prevent a consolidation of global power".

Sarah: "Remind me again, why is this consolidation, as you put it, so critical to our survival?”

Dr. Neruda” "Because the threats that will confront the human population in the 21st century will be global issues whether they are intractable recessions, dwindling oil supplies, food distribution, overpopulation, pollution, nuclear fallout, or extraterrestrial visitations, they will require a global, coordinated response. Unless the nations of the world are united, they will respond too slowly to the threats, and the decay forces will have such traction that they may be impossible to reverse".

Sarah: "But isn’t this why the United Nations was formed? To deal with these very issues?”

Dr. Neruda: "The United Nations is a prototype that the Incunabula designed to serve as an experiment to test the format for a world government. It was never considered to be the format for consolidation.

"The issues of which I’m speaking of are not confronted in the United Nations, even if they’re discussed and debated. Resolutions are designed to help remedy the problems, but ultimately it depends upon the will of the individual state to implement, monitor, report, analyze results, and make adjustments, and this is not enforced in any reasonable manner. A world government, to be effective, will require the ability to enforce and adjust resolutions based on sound analysis. Otherwise these threats will arise and the world’s people will not be able to speak with a single voice, and more importantly, to act as a unified force against threats".

Sarah: "So this is the real end game of the Incunabula? What happened to the greedy elitists you disclosed earlier?”

Dr. Neruda: "Greed is alive and well within the ranks of the Incunabula. But I’ve been talking about the planners of the Incunabula the people who have the real grip on power. They don’t operate out of greed. They have assets that are beyond the imagination of even wealthy people. The acquisition of wealth is completed for them.

"The planners are concerned with securing humanity’s future, rather than generating wealth for themselves".

Sarah: "Okay, I understand you’re a sympathizer of the Incunabula, but what happened to the insatiable greed and self interests? I know you mentioned this before".

Dr. Neruda: "It exists, but the Incunabula, like any undisclosed organization is composed of multiple levels. Operatives at the lower levels function within a set of rules and norms that do not apply to the higher levels. In other words, planners operate in a completely different organizational culture. There is a sophistication and penetrating insight at the highest levels that are not existent at the operations level.

"Planners within the Incunabula are of a special character and they feel a genuine responsibility to manage the global affairs of humanity. They are most certainly better equipped than heads of state to perform this function, and so they compose and orchestrate world events instead of merely participating in their unfolding.

"Over time, this role has made them very responsible and even paternalistic to humanity as a whole. They’re not motivated by greed, as are many others within the Incunabula and the broader Triad of Power, but they earnestly desire to save the planet. They are like captains of a ship that know where the dangers lie in the waters below and steer quietly away because they do not want to go down with the ship".

Sarah: "Okay, when you say these planners are anonymous, they must have names and identities, right?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. They operate outside of our system. They cannot be tracked or identified. If they were to be hit by a car and sent to a hospital, they would have diplomatic papers and immunity. They would not have any record of existence outside of this. And even if their identity were researched, it would lead to a fabricated identity".

Sarah: "What about family and relatives? I assume they were born into families weren’t they?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, they are human if that’s what you’re implying. In most cases they’re groomed for their positions from an early age. When they reach their early twenties they’re typically brought into a direct mentorship with one of the Incunabula planners and a very specific succession process is begun, which usually lasts for about ten years. When the person is in his mid-twenties his loyalty is tested in every conceivable manner over the next five years. If he passes these tests, he is allowed to preview the inner workings of the Incunabula. For most, this is near their thirty-third birthday.

"At this point, a new identity is transferred to the person and they die quite literally so far as their family and friends are concerned. These deaths are arranged as covers for their new identities and usually involve drowning or a fire accident, where physical evidence is minimal. Prior to their arranged death, insurance policies, if they exist, are cancelled to ensure minimal investigation, and usually the death is staged during a trip to a specific third-world country where police investigators are more easily controlled.

"After their death event, the new planner is inducted in a secret ceremony that I do not have details of. This inner circle becomes the surrogate family for the new planner, and as they develop in their skills, insights, intuition, and knowledge base, they develop a very protective sensibility to the longstanding goals and objectives of the Incunabula".

Sarah: "Okay, but don’t they ultimately get married and have children? How do they keep all of this separate? I mean how do you go to work during the day and plan the future of the world and then come home to dinner with the wife and kids?”

Dr. Neruda: "The planners are not married. It’s frowned on by the Incunabula. It is one of the tests I mentioned that they undergo in their mid-twenties".

Sarah: "So it’s a priesthood?”

Dr. Neruda: "Not at all. No one is asked to be celibate, but the role of the planner is all consuming. It requires minimal distractions and commitments outside of their role as planners. It’s a sacrifice and it heightens loyalty within the circle of planners".

Sarah: "How do they find future planners if they don’t have children?”

Dr. Neruda: "There are only five to eight planners at any one time within the Incunabula. Five is the core number, but there are usually two or three in training as well, but these do not have voting powers. I mention this because it is a very small number. Now, as to your question, candidates are identified early on usually when the person is a teenager".

Sarah: "Is this as a result of them doing something noteworthy or does it result from something else?”

Dr. Neruda: "They are, with rare exception, identified as a result of their genetics".

Sarah: "How is this done?”

Dr. Neruda: "It’s a result of extensive tracking of lineages and genetic traits including mutations. This is something that is well understood by the Incunabula, and is given a significant amount of time and investment. Genetic candidates are identified and observed over a period of about three years before any contact is made".

Sarah: "How many, at any one time, are being tracked?”

Dr. Neruda: "About fifty in number, but out of every generation only two or three are chosen".

Sarah: "And those that aren’t chosen don’t even know they were passed over?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, that’s correct".

Sarah: "How did the planners come about? I mean, how did they rise to leadership?”

Dr. Neruda: "The Incunabula came to its power as a result of the inefficiencies of the intelligence community to gather information and position its strategic value relative to the long-term crises that were forming on the horizon as they pertained to the global economy.

"Shortly after the second World War, many nations, including the United States, restructured or initiated their intelligence organizations particularly as it related to foreign policy intelligence gathering.

"However, these organizations were still locked into the cold war mentality and didn’t formally share intelligence as a result. The Incunabula arose out of a need to consolidate global intelligence as the best means to strategically maneuver the nation states to a unified platform of commerce".

Sarah: "So it was less about saving the world than it was about making money, at least initially?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "But how did it all start? I mean who decided it would be a good idea to create an organization that shared intelligence?”

Dr. Neruda: "If I gave you his name, it wouldn’t mean anything to you. I assure you his name is not recorded in any directory or reference material you could research".

Sarah: "But there was only one person that started this organization?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. There were five men that started it, but one sparked the vision".

Sarah: "As you’re talking I can’t help but think that these planners sound a lot like the Hollywood portrayal of the antichrist. I mean don’t they wield a god-like power? And yet I haven’t heard you say anything about a religious connection".

Dr. Neruda: "I think the power they wield is directed at the survival of humanity. They’re not evil in the sense that they’re intent on destroying earth or humanity. They’re trying to guide humanity to new systems before the old systems decay and create the conditions that could bring annihilation to a substantial percentage of the species.

"The choices of a fragmented state leadership or anarchy are not suitable systems for modern, civilized man. They invariably lead to imbalance and an inability to move from the old system to the new system. Before the advent of long-range missile technology, nuclear, biological and chemical weapons, this migration of the human race from one system to another was not as critical. But the chasm that exists between systems as complex as economies and energy, and in light of modern weapon’s technology, the Incunabula serve a vital role".

Sarah: "Do the planners believe in God?”

Dr. Neruda: "I presume they believe in a higher power. Perhaps they don’t call it God because of the religious overtones contained in that word, but they certainly are aware of the unification force because Fifteen has acquainted the present generation of planners with the LERM technology".

Sarah: "That’s interesting. So they’ve all seen LERM and know how it works?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, to your first question, but I don’t believe they understand how it works at the micro-factual level".

Sarah: "When someone like the Incunabula planners interact with LERM, assuming they didn’t believe in God beforehand, in other words they’re an atheist, does it convert them?”

Dr. Neruda: "Again, it depends on the definition of God. If they don’t believe in God as defined by a certain religion, and then experience LERM, they will not be persuaded by LERM to believe in the religious version of God".

Sarah: "I think I followed your explanation, but what I mean is different. Assume they didn’t believe in any higher power, that the universe is a big mechanical formation that became the way it did by some evolutionary quirk. Would someone of this mindset become a believer that there’s a force orchestrating things even if you don’t choose to call it God?”

Dr. Neruda: "Everyone who has undertaken the LERM experience concludes that a unifying intelligence pervades the universe in every measurable dimension, and that this intelligence is both personal and universal simultaneously, and because of this feature, it is absolute, unique, singular.

"It’s a life-changing experience even if you already believe in God. You are converted, as you put it, no matter how strong or weak your previous beliefs in God were".

Sarah: "It’s too bad you didn’t bring this technology with you when you defected… I’d love to experience this.

"So, back to the Incunabula for a moment, it would make me feel better if I knew they believed in God, and you’re saying they do. Right?”

Dr. Neruda: "They believe in this unifying intelligence that I spoke of, and I suspect that if you asked them, they would tell you that they’re guided and perhaps even inspired by this intelligent force. I don’t know if they would call it God or some other name. But I trust they are believers in what some would call the unification force".

Sarah: "But it’s not like a religion to them?”

Dr. Neruda: "That’s correct. I know of nothing that would suggest that the Incunabula planners follow a specified religion or desire to start one for that matter.

Sarah: "I don’t know why I’m asking all these question tonight, but it’s fascinating to hear more details about the Incunabula. I find it an irresistible topic.

"How is it that you know so much about such a secretive organization?”

Dr. Neruda: "As I mentioned previously, the ACIO is a major contractor with the Incunabula and receives funding and support from them, including shared intelligence and mutual protection. As a result of this longstanding relationship, directors at the ACIO have considerable insight into the organization. Fifteen is not a planner, but is held in very high esteem by the planners and meets with them perhaps once or twice a year.

"Fifteen is well aware of the objectives of the planners, and he shares his insights with members of the Labyrinth Group. We also discuss how the Incunabula’s plans might bear on our own. The Incunabula is a factor in the ACIO plans, but they don’t dominate its agenda".

Sarah: "How much do the Incunabula know about the WingMakers and the Ancient Arrow site?”

Dr. Neruda: "Very little, as far as I know. Fifteen begrudgingly provides some information to his direct agency supervisor, but the NSA is not aware of the Ancient Arrow site. There are two operatives within the NSA that are aware of the original artifact that was found, but Fifteen placed the existence of this artifact in question due to its self-destruction".

Sarah: "I assume from your response that whatever is shared with the NSA, at least in the case of the ACIO, it is shared with the Incunabula planners".

Dr. Neruda: "No. There are information filters that reduce clutter. Only certain information, as deemed necessary by Fifteen, is forwarded up the command chain to the Incunabula planners".

Sarah: "The WingMakers are understood to be a force to be reckoned with, correct?”

Dr. Neruda: "Do you mean by the Incunabula planners?”

Sarah: "Yes".

Dr. Neruda: "The planners know about the Central Race and the legend pertaining to their existence. There are several important references to them in various books and prophecy, so even if the ACIO didn’t share anything of their discovery in New Mexico, the Incunabula especially its planners are well aware of the Central Race".

Sarah: "Why did Fifteen choose not to share the Ancient Arrow discovery with either the NSA or the Incunabula?”

Dr. Neruda: "Fifteen designed the Labyrinth Group largely for security reasons. Information that pertains to BST is held in the highest secrecy. As I mentioned earlier, Fifteen was hopeful that the Ancient Arrow site, and the other related sites, would somehow accelerate the successful deployment of BST.

"It’s a simple matter of not wanting to alert the Incunabula, or the NSA for that matter, to the technology prowess of the Labyrinth Group. If they knew what the Labyrinth Group had in terms of technology, the planners would want to have detailed knowledge of this technology, and Fifteen doesn’t trust anyone outside his directors with this knowledge".

Sarah: "The part that I find bewildering in all of this is that you have all of this knowledge about the universe, extraterrestrials, global plans, and futuristic technologies, and because you have this knowledge you’re essentially a prisoner now".

Dr. Neruda: "I prefer conscientious defector".

Sarah: "Whatever you call it, you've got to be a little paranoid about the remote viewing capabilities of the ACIO and their various technologies. How can you outrun the ACIO or the Incunabula if they’re anywhere as powerful as you say they are?”

Dr. Neruda: "I don’t know that I can evade them. I don’t feel invincible or vulnerable. I’m simply operating on a moment-to-moment basis, trying my best to transfer what I know so you can help me publish this information.

"It’s never been done before to defect from the ACIO. I know Fifteen is searching for me, I can actually feel this".

Sarah: "You mean you can feel when they use their remote viewing technology?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "How often have you detected this since you left?”

Dr. Neruda: "I’d prefer not to say how many instances, but I’m aware of each incident".

Sarah: "Have you ever felt this during our interview?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. I would stop the interview if this were the case".

Sarah: "How would this help?”

Dr. Neruda: "I would prefer that they not hear our conversation even its general tone".

Sarah: "Is this why we meet at the times we do?”

[Note Our meetings were always in a different place, late at night, and they were often outdoors in non-descript places. This was the case in this fourth interview.]

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "So how do you protect yourself and me?”

Dr. Neruda: "By meeting at odd hours and changing locations, at least until you can get these interviews published on the Internet".

Sarah: "How will this help you exactly? I know we’ve had this discussion before, but I still don’t understand how this information will help you if it gets into the public domain. It seems to me that it would only anger them".

Dr. Neruda: "They won’t be pleased at this disclosure there’s no doubt in this. However, it will not touch them in any significant way because very few in power will believe what I share with you, assuming they even read it".

Sarah: "And why is this?”

Dr. Neruda: "They are totally consumed in their own agendas and personal dramas. The information I’m disclosing defies categorization. It ranges from poetry to physics, from esoteric philosophy to the conspiratorial forces within MIC (the Military Industrial Complex). And because it defies categorization, it will be difficult to critique and analyze. Most will consider it an interesting piece of entertainment and leave it at that.

"Also, and more importantly, there’s a real feeling of acceptance because intelligentsia and the political body of dissent don’t feel equipped to stop what is presumed to be the inevitable. There are those within both of these groups that have a general awareness of what is emerging, but feel completely powerless to change it, and there is a sense of fate that accompanies their silence.

"The ones that will find it most disturbing are the planners within the Incunabula, and Fifteen himself, and not because politicians or the media will be stepping into their arena, but because they don’t want their secrets revealed to their followers, or, in the case of Fifteen, to the planners of the Incunabula or his contacts at the NSA".

Sarah: "So this is a purpose of these disclosures to infuriate the Incunabula planners and your boss?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. I don’t have any vested interest in making their lives more difficult. It’s simply a result of my candid disclosure that they will undergo the resulting pressures from their constituents. This is the only thing that they’ll find unpleasant in this whole disclosure. Once the information is out I will be less an interest, other than for pure analysis".

Sarah: "Pure analysis?”

Dr. Neruda: "What I mean is that the ACIO Fifteen in particular will want to analyze what went wrong in their security system to ensure that another defection will not take place. There’s always the lurking fear that one successful defection would encourage others. If they captured me, they would be able to do a more thorough analysis on the psychological state, precipitating factors, methods of evasion, and so on".

Sarah: "You’ve talked before about the website. What is it that you want to achieve with this?”

Dr. Neruda: "To simply make available what the WingMakers have left behind. It will not threaten the ACIO or the Incunabula. It would be impossible to do so, and they know that I understand this. I can only cause a temporary embarrassment at best, but they can manage their way through that.

"As I’ve said from the beginning, I wanted to share this information from the Ancient Arrow site and any subsequent sites that I can".

Sarah: "Any subsequent sites? Are you planning to find additional sites?”

Dr. Neruda: "I believe there are seven sites on earth. I also believe they can be found".

Sarah: "How, exactly?”

Dr. Neruda: "I can’t disclose this".

Sarah: "Have you found something within the Ancient Arrow artifacts that gives you directions?”

Dr. Neruda: "Again, I don’t want to disclose the details of this".

Sarah: "Okay.

"Since we landed on the topic of the artifacts, I’m reminded that in our last session you mentioned that you’d like us to talk about the artifacts from the Ancient Arrow site. This might be a good time to do so. Where would you like to begin?”

Dr. Neruda: "One of the most interesting artifacts was the original homing device".

Sarah: "This is the one found by the students at the University of New Mexico?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. It was enigmatic in all respects".

Sarah: "Give me some examples".

Dr. Neruda: "When it was first discovered, it was laying on top of the ground as if it had been placed there. This was not a buried object as it should have been. It was left in the open, albeit in a very non-descript section of northern New Mexico. When the students handled it, it immediately induced vivid hallucinations, which they couldn’t understand".

Sarah: "What kind of hallucinations?”

Dr. Neruda: "They saw images of a cave-like structure. It later turned out to be the Ancient Arrow site, but of course they didn’t know what it was, and were afraid of it because they linked the hallucinations to touching the object. So they wrapped the object up in a jacket, stuck it in their backpack, and brought it to a professor at the University, who examined it. We discovered it within hours afterwards and dispatched a team to secure the artifact".

Sarah: "How exactly did you find out about the artifact? I assume the ACIO isn’t listed in the phone directory".

Dr. Neruda: "There are certain keywords that are monitored in e-mail and phone communications especially within academia. The ACIO simply taps into this technology that was developed by the NSA, and can intercept e-mails and phone calls anywhere in the world that relate to key words that it monitors".

Sarah: "Like Alien or Extraterrestrial?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. It actually works a little differently because the ACIO can define how many characters in the case of e-mail, or how much time in the case of a phone conversation it wants to monitor on either side of the key word, and then extracts entire sentences or even paragraphs in an effort to verify context. It also correlates this to the e-mail’s IP address or phone number to a credibility index. If all of these variables meet a specified level, the communication event is relayed to analysts at the ACIO who then perform more invasive techniques to ensure context and content are matched and verified. All of these steps can take place in a matter of an hour or two".

Sarah: "And once you have this information verified you swoop in and take possession of whatever you want?”

Dr. Neruda: "We have uncovered our most important discoveries in this very manner since this system was activated, and the ACIO operates differently depending on the situation. In this case, operatives were dispatched to the professor’s office posing as NSA agents in search of a missing experimental weapon. It was believed by the professor to be in his own best interest to release the object without delay since the artifact was deemed to be imminently dangerous".

Sarah: "I’m surprised. Didn’t he wonder how you knew he had it?”

Dr. Neruda: "I’m sure he did, but there’s an element of shock that the operatives make use of and they’re also highly skilled in the use of mind control. I’m sure he was very cooperative. The artifact was secured without any major objection by the professor or the University".

Sarah: "If I contacted the University of New Mexico would I be able to confirm that this occurred?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. Every event of this kind is com-cleared, which is an ACIO term, meaning contracts are signed and all communications are monitored for one year to ensure compliance".

Sarah: "So they signed contracts and won’t talk because of a piece of paper? That seems a bit outlandish".

Dr. Neruda: "Do you know the penalty for treason?”

Sarah: "No, I mean I understand it’s not a good thing and all, but I just find it a little strange that someone like a learned professor would be intimidated by a signed contract. What about the students that originally found it, are they also com-cleared?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "Okay, back to the artifact. What happened when you retrieved it? What was your role specifically?”

Dr. Neruda: "I was asked to lead a team to assess the artifact using our internal Sanitaire process".

Sarah: "What’s this process do?”

Dr. Neruda: "Whenever an extraterrestrial artifact is recovered, it’s initially put through the Sanitaire process, or what we sometimes referred to as the ‘I-steps’, which includes four stages of analysis. The first is Inspection where we examine the object’s exterior and map its exterior features in our computer. The next is Inference, which is the stage where we take the results of stage one and compute the probable applications of the object. The third stage is Intervention, which is related to any issues that pertain to the defense or security mode of the object. And the last stage is Invasion, which simply means we try to access the inner workings of the object and find out how it operates".

Sarah: "How difficult was it to go through this four-step process with this artifact?”

Dr. Neruda: "It was one of the most difficult we had ever examined".

Sarah: "Why?”

Dr. Neruda: ”It was designed for a very specific purpose and unless it was used for this purpose, it was completely impenetrable to our examinations".

Sarah: "Didn’t the hallucinations affect you?”

Dr. Neruda: "We knew of the hallucinations reported by the students who recovered the artifact, but we didn’t find any evidence of this at all in our labs. We assumed the students were imagining this due to the unusual nature of the artifact.

"It wasn’t until later that we discovered that the very subtle markings on the exterior of the object where actually three dimensional topographical maps. Once we overlaid these to real maps of the area in which the object was found, we uncovered its real purpose, which was a homing beacon.

"The hallucinations were site-specific, which is to say that there was a proximity effect encoded within the artifact that caused it to operate when two conditions were present. First, the object needed to be within the geographical range of its map coordinates as etched on its casing and two, it needed to be held in a human’s hands in order for its guidance system to activate".

Sarah: "And by guidance system you’re talking about the hallucinations?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "And throughout this whole process you didn’t know where this artifact came from, right?”

Dr. Neruda: "We knew it was extraterrestrial and we knew it was situated".

Sarah: "What do you mean by situated?”

Dr. Neruda: "That it was placed there to be found".

Sarah: "Who do you think did this?”

Dr. Neruda: "Representatives of the Central Race".

Sarah: "So what happened next after you realized it was a homing beacon?”

Dr. Neruda: "A team was dispatched to the area and we essentially followed the device to the interior structure of the Ancient Arrow site, which you’re already aware of".

Sarah: "You said earlier that this artifact was the most amazing of the entire find. If it was simply a homing device, then the other artifacts I assume were fairly mundane".

Dr. Neruda: "To be more accurate, I can’t say it was the most interesting since I defected before all the other artifacts were sent through the I-Steps process, but it was a very advanced technology and one of the most enigmatic we had come across in quite a while.

"For example, once our team came within a certain distance of the site, the artifact animated under some undetermined energy source and scanned our group. It was literally reading our bodies and minds, presumably to determine if we were suitable to discover the site".

Sarah: "And if you weren’t suitable?”

Dr. Neruda: "It was never discussed, but I think everyone assumed it would probably have destroyed the site and all those present at the time of the scanning. As it was, it only destroyed itself".

Sarah: "And you had no idea that it was capable of these feats when you examined it?”

Dr. Neruda: "None whatsoever. Its casing was resistant to all of our invasive analyses. It was a real source of frustration. In fact, the artifact in the 23rd chamber was similarly vexing and required significantly more resources to complete the I-Steps process".

Sarah: "Are these the only two artifacts from the site that you’ve completed the I-Steps process?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, prior to my defection. But there were artifacts in every chamber, although the one discovered in chamber twenty-three seemed the most important".

Sarah: "And why was that?”

Dr. Neruda: "Remember that I described the interior of the site as a helix-shaped tunnel system?”

Sarah: "Yes".

Dr. Neruda: "The uppermost chamber was the 23rd chamber and in it was the optical disc. While the other chambers held artifacts similar in size and composition to the homing artifact, the artifact in the twenty-third chamber was an optical disc that had a degree of familiarity to it, and we considered it the key to the entire site".

Sarah: "Because it was so different from the other artifacts?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. It was also the highest chamber in the formation and it was unique in its structure in that it was the only chamber that was unfinished".

Sarah: "I understand that all the information you showed me came from the disc, and I know you’ve explained in some detail about how you were able to decode the information, but you’ve alluded tonight that something within this site points to the location of six other sites. Can you elaborate on this at all?”

Dr. Neruda: "There’s nothing in this information that points to the location of the other six sites. However, I believe there is, encoded within this information, location markers to the next site".

Sarah: "You mean the sites are supposed to be discovered in a specific order one at a time?”

Dr. Neruda: "I believe so".

Sarah: "Can you give me some hints as to where the next site is, based on your analysis?”

Dr. Neruda: "If I gave you some information, you would need to promise that this interview would not be released until I contacted you and confirmed it was okay to do so. Would you agree with this?”

Sarah: "Certainly. I would honor anything you asked".

Dr. Neruda: "There is an ancient temple just outside of the city of Cusco, Peru called Sacsayhuaman. It is somewhere near this temple that the next site will be found".

Sarah: "And do you know where exactly, or are you simply saying near to be evasive".

Dr. Neruda: "No, I believe I know the exact coordinates, but this detail I won’t disclose".

Sarah: "This is your homeland isn’t it?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, I grew up not too far from this area".

Sarah: "Have you been to this site before?”

Dr. Neruda: "No, but I’m somewhat familiar with the city of Cusco".

Sarah: "This question may seem to come out of left field, and I’d understand if you don’t want to answer it, but why do you think the Central Race would design a defensive system upon earth and then leave its discovery and activation to an organization like the ACIO?”

Dr. Neruda: "I don’t think it was left in the hands of the ACIO to find and activate these sites".

Sarah: "You, then?”

Dr. Neruda: "I’m not able to say at this time".

Dr. Neruda: "But you’re certainly an important part of this aren’t you?”

Dr. Neruda: "I hope so".

Sarah: "Okay, here’s another left curve.

"Why are five men the Incunabula planners allowed to control the destiny of humanity? I mean it’s only five men and we’re five billion world citizens. No one elected these guys, and virtually no one knows who these guys are, what their plans are, capabilities, insights, or even if they truly have our best interests at heart.

"After hearing your story tonight, I’m left with this sense of indignation that five guys no matter how well intentioned are deciding the fate of humanity and no one knows who they are!

"At least with politicians I can see them, hear them talk on television, and get to know their unique personalities. There’s a comfort in this. Whether I believe them all the time, well, that’s a different story, but most of the ones I’ve voted for I think are good and honorable people".

Dr. Neruda: "When you ask the question, ‘allowed’ to run the world, whom are you referring to?”

Sarah: "Doesn’t the Central Race have something to say about this? Afterall, as you mentioned the other night, all of these seven ancient sites are part of a defensive weapon designed to protect the earth. They also placed this homing device in clear sight for the ACIO to uncover, which proves they’re interacting with us in our present time. Wouldn’t the Central Race need to allow these planners to have such authority over humanity’s destiny?”

Dr. Neruda: "Let me try to answer your question this way.

"Presidents and senators, congressmen and governors, presidential cabinets and military leaders, all ebb and flow, which is to say, they have their influence for a period of years, and then they move aside for others to take their place. Their agendas express short-term power to pass new legislation, appoint new judges, or amend laws. They are so focused on the politics of the near-term that they lose sight of the importance of the long term.

"The Incunabula planners have the safety of permanence and place their whole focus on the long-term objectives of humanity. This is the nature of the Incunabula. They bring continuity to the major issues of our time and the times to come for the next three generations. They operate in this realm to ensure they are not influenced by the short-term goals of special interest.

"As to your question about who ‘allows’ them to perform this function, I’d have to say that no one does. No one has control or authority over the planners, no more than anyone has control or authority over Fifteen or the Labyrinth Group".

Sarah: "What about the Central Race, though? Doesn’t it stand to reason that they know about these planners and watch them? I thought you said earlier that this unification force, or God, advises them or something like that. Didn’t you make this comment?”

Dr. Neruda: "What I meant is that the Incunabula planners believe in this force that unifies all sentient life throughout time and space. They believe very strongly in their personal destinies or they would never have been placed in the position of a planner. It is a very esteemed position despite its anonymity.

"I have no doubt that the Central Race is aware of the Incunabula planners and perhaps there is even some influence or exchange. I don’t know. As I said before, my knowledge of the planners is based exclusively on the reports from Fifteen".

Sarah: "So it’s possible that Fifteen made all of this up?”

Dr. Neruda: "You mean about the planners?”

Sarah: "Isn’t it possible?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. But it’s possible that his perception is not completely accurate, though I doubt it. Fifteen’s ability to grasp the character of someone is uncanny. He understands human psychology better than those writing the textbooks. I think it would be impossible for the planners to pull the wool over his eyes without him being aware of it".

Sarah: "But you said you never met these planners only Fifteen has…”

Dr. Neruda: "I understand your concern about the validity of this. If I could give you names to check out, or some other form of proof, I would. These organizations exist right up to the Incunabula, and they can be traced and researched. Certainly many journalists and researchers have done so regarding Freemasonry or Skull and Bones, and some with good success. But they never look at the broader order and what organization manages these larger, more abstract forces that make up the Triad of Power".

Sarah: "But why?”

Dr. Neruda: "There’s nothing to drill into. There’s no research traction. The organization is purposely abstract and amorphous".

Sarah: "But leaders like Clinton and Blair, aren’t they really pulling the strings? How do the planners within the Incunabula have greater power than these leaders who are signing new legislation into law or deciding whether we go to war or not? It just doesn’t make sense".

Dr. Neruda: "Everything within a democracy is consensus and the game is designed to shift consensual opinion and fix it on a specific galvanizing target. If there’s sufficient resonance with the people, the shift can be manipulated. If there is not, the political will is stymied. Leadership all over the world, unless it’s in a country like North Korea, is bound to this certainty, and nation’s leaders are generally well schooled to operate within this reality.

"Yes, the world’s leaders appear to wield a great deal of power, but it is really aggression not power. True power is contained in the acts of implementing a plan that is designed to enhance or optimize the position of humanity relative to its environment, and to protect it from formidable threats. The key word is humanity, which is an analogue for the collective soul of every person on the planet. It is not defined by ethnicity or geographical boundaries.

"World leaders apply aggression to achieve their agendas, which always include a healthy dose of state greed and self-aggrandizement. The concept of humanity is not a critical ingredient in their agenda. Their power, if that’s what you want to call it, is a collective will of a small inner circle of political zealots who want to secure the benefits of their power for themselves first, their state second, and their citizens third".

Sarah: "That’s a pretty strong condemnation of our political system, assuming I understand you correctly".

Dr. Neruda: "Then I would say you understand me quite well".

Sarah: "So our political leaders lack real power because they’re absorbed in state agendas that exclude humanity as a whole?”

Dr. Neruda: "Please understand that I’m not condemning the individual leaders so much as I am the provincial state system, which has been engineered to excite nationalism. The individual leaders assume the identity of the state system, which is largely contrived around the single concept of patriotism".

Sarah: "So now you’re saying patriotism is the problem? I’m confused".

Dr. Neruda: "Patriotism is the state catalyst. It is the means by which citizens are stirred to a response. It is also the means by which leaders are directed to respond to issues or threats. Under this singular banner, wars have been prosecuted and aggression veiled. It’s the ideal method that the state uses to enjoin its citizens to support its leadership.

"I’m saying that the citizens’ identification with the state, or patriotism, is the real stumbling block to effectively deal with the issues of humanity. The individual leaders are simply pawns within this structure that was engineered as a means to colonize the weaker states".

Sarah: "I think my brain can only handle one more question and than I’d like to call it quits for tonight. Okay with you?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, whatever you’d like".

Sarah: "In this whole discussion tonight most of which has been centered on the Incunabula or, maybe more appropriately I should call it the world power structure I don’t hear much about the spiritual implications. It really sounds oddly impersonal and unspiritual, if that’s a word. Can you comment on this?”

Dr. Neruda: "What is occurring in our world is a manifestation of how a species migrates from statehood to species-hood. It is a stage within the migration plan. Humans must move from the patriotic, believe-what-I-am-told mentality, and elevate their thinking to encompass and embrace the holistic community of humankind. It will require enormous leadership capacity in order to accomplish the conclusion of this migration, because the world’s people will require a watershed event to erase its memory".

Sarah: "Hold on a moment. What do you mean to erase its memory?”

Dr. Neruda: "There’s a persistent memory in the psyche of humans particularly the weaker cultures that have been trampled on by nations bent on colonization. These grievous indignations to the weaker nations of the world have left a deep mark on their collective memory. It’s vital that this memory be erased or purged in order for humankind to become unified in its governance and fundamental systems.

"This event can be orchestrated or it may occur through natural means, but it’s generally agreed that an event must arise that galvanizes the world’s people to unite, and in this process, purge the memory of all peoples, but especially those who have been dealt with as victims of colonization".

Sarah: "I know I just said I was only good for one more question, but as a journalist I can’t resist this line of thought. Give me some examples of what kind of event you’re talking about?”

Dr. Neruda: "The most probable event with global implications is an energy shortage".

Sarah: "This is what you said earlier, but wouldn’t an energy shortage only create more friction between the haves and have-nots?”

Dr. Neruda: "If it were managed properly, no. The kind of energy shortage I’m talking about will have devastating effects on every aspect of our world. All infrastructures would be impacted, and the impact would be harsh and persistent. A global body to regulate production and distribution of existing resources, coupled to a well-managed search for alternative, renewable sources would become a necessity of this condition.

"Still behind the scenes, the Incunabula would help to manage this event in such a way as to restore equality to the world’s people. It would stand above the special interests and dominant powers, and ensure fairness. This fairness would establish its instrument of global leadership as the preeminent force for globalization, and the memory of all would metaphorically speaking be erased".

Sarah: "Is this my answer for where’s the spiritual in all of this?”

Dr. Neruda: "No. Admittedly I got sidetracked a bit.

"Also, I want to make the disclaimer that what I’m disclosing is the broad concept, and anyone reading these disclosures in the future, I hope you will bear this in mind. I’m not able, owing to the circumstances and time constraint, to provide a detailed rendering. However, these details do exist and when one has the luxury of studying them, all of what I am disclosing will appear more plausible.

"Now, regarding your question. The spiritual element is very strongly integrated to the whole theme of tonight’s discussion. If I were to sum it up, I’d call it the human migration plan. Humankind is evolving on one level, and migrating on another.

"In the instance of its evolution, humans are becoming more advanced technologically speaking with the ability to multi-process more sophisticated visual, aural, and intellectual data. In other words, the brain system is changing to become more holistic in how it processes information. Computers are a big part of this evolutionary track.

"Humans are also migrating from separation by means of statehood, to unification through globalism. This is a completely different but related track. Humankind is coalescing, even though it may not seem like it because we continue to have wars and conflicts throughout the globe. It’s happening in micro-steps".

Sarah: "And the spiritual?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes, thank you. The spiritual is that these two tracks are leading humankind to something that the WingMakers call the Grand Portal. It is the connection to our human soul, which has been broken into hundreds of pieces and strewn across the globe in the form of different colors, cultures, languages, and geographies, and is now in the process of an unalterable reunion.

"This is the spiritual aspect, and it touches everything in our lives. It penetrates every single atom of our collective existence, imbuing it with a destiny that is yet unseen".

Sarah: "You just mentioned the Grand Portal. What is it?”

Dr. Neruda: "In the glossary found on the optical disc, it talks about this”

Sarah: "Just so you know I did read the section of the glossary you gave me, but only once, and it didn’t stick with me too well. Can you explain it again, please?”

Dr. Neruda: "The Grand Portal, according to the WingMakers, is the indisputable, scientific discovery of the human soul".

Sarah: "Sort of like LERM isn’t it?”

Dr. Neruda: "Similar, but LERM is more the demonstration that the unification force exists and interpenetrates all dimensions of existence. It is the proof of spirit, if you will. The human soul remains elusive to our technology".

Sarah "But you’re not saying that soul and spirit are different are you because I was always taught that soul and spirit are essentially one and the same thing".

Dr. Neruda: "Soul, or what the WingMakers refer to as the Wholeness Navigator, is the replica of First Source (God), only compartmentalized into a singular, immortal, and wholly individualized personality. Spirit is more of the connecting force that unifies the individual soul with First Source and all other souls".

Sarah: "I’m not sure I followed that description, but it may be that my mind is saturated right now and nothing you said would get through my thick skull.

"Anyway, what will be gained by having this discovery… the Grand Portal?”

Dr. Neruda: "Everything that keeps us separate locked in statehood and provincial concerns will be obliterated when this undeniable proof is obtained".

Sarah: "Why would the basic nature of man, which has taken hundreds of thousands of years to form, suddenly change when science steps forward and announces that it has proven the existence of soul? It doesn’t seem plausible to me".

Dr. Neruda: "According to the WingMakers this is the evolutionary path of the human species, and the discovery of the Grand Portal is the culmination of a global species. It creates the conditions whereby the things that separate us are stripped away, whether they’re color, race, form, geography, religion, or anything else. We find ourselves staring into the lens of science and we see that all humans are composed of the same inner substance whatever you choose to call it and it is this that truly defines us and our capabilities".

Sarah: "So everything we’ve been talking about tonight… the globalization of humankind culminates in this discovery? Is that what you’re saying?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "And the Incunabula planners will be there, waiting to guide us. Is that also part of the plan?”

Dr. Neruda: "I don’t know if there’ll be a role for the Incunabula in this new world. Perhaps, perhaps not".

Sarah: "If an individual would experience this Grand Portal and establish for themselves that they are composed of a soul an immortal soul wouldn’t it profoundly change the way in which they live? I mean I’m just starting to think of the ramifications, and they’re kind of scary.

"For example, what if someone saw that they don’t really die. Wouldn’t that change their attitude towards death in such a way that they no longer fear it? Perhaps people would become more reckless and daring, more dangerous".

Dr. Neruda: "Some may. There will undoubtedly be many different reactions, and I don’t pretend to know how it will all be managed".

Sarah: "Another thing I find interesting in this whole thing is the role of science verses religion. It seems that religion has tried its best to define soul and failed. Whatever its definitions, they seem to be based entirely on faith, and there’s no real consistency in the model. This Grand Portal is a scientific discovery, not a religious one. Correct?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "So science will get a try. What if they fail as well? Maybe there’s something so elusive, so hidden in all of this that science does no better. I mean I know some people who can be shown something and they will deny it with all their strength. How do you convince someone who doesn’t want to see it?”

Dr. Neruda: "You can think of the Grand Portal as the interface for the consciousness of vertical time. This interface will be discovered sometime in the 21st century. I don’t know all the details. I don’t know how it will impact on the individual. You may be right; some will accept it and some will not. I only know it is part of the destiny that humankind is led to achieve".

Sarah: "According to the WingMakers?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes".

Sarah: "Did you know about this prior to reading the glossary?”

Dr. Neruda: "Do you mean did I know about the existence of the Grand Portal?”

Sarah: "Yes, that, or simply the technology to prove the existence of the human soul. Was it being planned or worked on by the ACIO?”

Dr. Neruda: "No".

Sarah: "Are there any other organizations working on this proof even now?”

Dr. Neruda: "Not that I know of".

Sarah: "If no one’s trying to discover this Grand Portal, who will?”

Dr. Neruda: "That’s why I want to get these materials out. The WingMakers’ materials are designed to activate those souls that are incarnating who will play active roles in the discovery and creation of the Grand Portal”

Sarah: "Are you saying that souls are incarnating specifically for this purpose?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes. There are very advanced souls who are incarnating in the next three generations who will design, develop, and employ the Grand Portal. This is the central purpose of the WingMakers’ materials stored within these seven sites".

Sarah: "I thought you said they were a defensive weapon?”

Dr. Neruda: "That’s one role, but there is another as well. And I believe it has to do with the artistic elements. They are encoded. They are catalysts of consciousness. I’m convinced of this based on my own experience".

Sarah: "I’ve read many of these writings, and listened to the music. I like it, but it hasn’t catalyzed anything in me. I certainly don’t feel like I want to help design or build the Grand Portal, not that I have the mental capacity to contribute anything of value".

Dr. Neruda: "Perhaps your role is different".

Sarah: "Or I have no role at all. Maybe you have to have the qualities inside you before the materials can activate anything. And in my case, I have this feeling that there’s nothing there to awaken.

"Well, as much as I’m tempted to dive into more information about this Grand Portal, I think my mind has reached its full ration for the night. Let’s plan to talk more about the Grand Portal in our next interview. Okay?”

Dr. Neruda: "That’s fine with me".

Sarah: "Anything you want to say before we sign off?”

Dr. Neruda: "Yes.

"If you, the reader, wonder how the information I’ve presented about the Incunabula relates to all of the various conspiracy theories about the New World Order, intelligence community, Illuminati, Freemasonry, and all the other supposed clandestine organizations of the world, I would respectfully ask you to suspend your prior notions about the motivations of these various groups.

"These are not evil-minded organizations regardless of how some portray them. Their members have children and families just like you, and they take pleasure and disgust in the very same things as you do. They are humans with all the same weaknesses for vice and greed, but they also have a strong energy to improve the world, it is simply that their definition of what a better world is may differ from yours.

"If your interest is to conjure an antagonist for your amusement, that’s your prerogative. But the issues I’ve related tonight are too serious to be amusing. They are deserving of your attention and discernment. Do your own investigation into the energy supplies of our world. You may come up with different numbers than what I mentioned, but only because the technology of the ACIO is more advanced than the petroleum industry. Nonetheless, you’ll see confirmation of this general condition.

"Look at the current events of your time whenever you read this interview. You’ll see how this plan is progressing. It may seem to take detours, but the general course is what I’ve described. It is moving in this direction not out of accident or because of the whims of the world’s leaders, you can be sure. It is all part of the orchestration of events that are played out according to the well-designed blueprints of the Incunabula planners.

"You may feel a certain anguish that you’re being led to a future not of your choosing, but if you want to have influence, then you need to be educated and aware of the real forces that are defining your future. This is a free-will universe. There is no hierarchy of angelic beings guiding the destiny of earth. There is no ascended master who dictates the pathway to enlightenment for humanity or the individual.

"If you truly want to express and apply your freewill, make it a personal religion to know the facts. Learn how to look behind the stories that are being sold by the media and politicians, and form your own conclusions. Keep your doubt intact about everything you’re told from the political stage, especially when you’re induced to be patriotic. It is one of the clearest signals to be suspicious of what you’re being told.

"When enemies are created especially new ones, be wary of the motivations of those who claim them to be enemies. Investigate the facts. Look under all the rocks and verify your evidence. Each of you must become investigators and learn the art of research and analytical study if you want to feel more a part of the movement to globalization.

"Your insights and understandings may not change humanity’s course one millimeter, but it will change your ability to feel a part of this migration and have a sense of where humanity is moving and why.

"And to those who prefer to strike out on their own path and believe that globalism is pure folly, I can only explain to you that it must happen. It is the outward expression of who we are and it is the natural progression of our species to unify around the inner essence of our identity, instead of the outer façade of our particular nation or religious belief.

"I believe everyone understands this to varying degrees, but it is the methods of this unification that concern people. And I share this concern. If we’re collectively informed about the plan and understand the end-goal is something that holds a great promise for humanity, we can pursue this goal with greater velocity and with added confidence that the methods will be in everyone’s best interest. This must be our goal.

"And finally, many of you may feel that globalization is a concept of the New World Order and therefore dismiss it as a movement borne out of greed and the lust for power. Yes, there are always those who will take advantage of this movement to achieve personal gain, but the reason to become a unified people on this earth is far greater than the personal gains of a few. Remember this as you read your conspiracy stories.

"I’m finished, Sarah. Thank you for your indulgence".

Sarah: "Thank you for your comments".

End of Session