Leading Edge Interviews Drunvalo Melchizedek
Interview Conducted on December 22, 1995
(c) 1995 Leading Edge Research
http://www.cco.net/~trufax

Drunvalo Melchizedek is the main proponent of the revival of an ancient form of meditation and breathing technique geared toward mastering the creation of the Merkaba, often referred to as the vehicle for ascension. His Flower of Life workshops are world- famous and are detailed in Matrix IV. Drunvalo has devoted his life exclusively to reawakening awareness in the human population through the study of sacred geometry and the practice of the Merkaba meditation.

(Posted to Snet Mailing List by density4@cts.com (Blue Resonant Human)
on Friday, February 9th, 1996)

Val: There are people out there who have never heard of you or the Flower of Life workshops. Could you explain your origins and how you got your last name?

Drunvalo: Well, the origins and where I got my last name are kind of interrelated. First of all, the whole Universe is conscious and alive - completely alive, and has been forever. Everything is not inanimate as it seems - it is just made up of different levels of awareness of consciousness, one way or another. Melchizedek consciousness is just another aspect of the One consciousness. It was that aspect that stepped into this creation first. It was the first part of the consciousness of the One God that existed before creation. When God decided to experience the creation that had been created - it was just a Void, really, Melchizedek consciousness split into two, the other part being what we call Christ consciousness.

Val: So Christ consciousness is a derivative of Melchizedek consciousness?

Drunvalo: Yes.

Val: How could you characterize Melchizedek consciousness relative to Christ consciousness?

Drunvalo: The difference is that Melchizedek consciousness is formless in its original state. Christ consciousness was that aspect that began to integrate into the possibility of form and manifestation. From there, there have been many many divisions within Christ consciousness which are seldom talked about that are further levels of existence which penetrate all the way down to where we are here. At this point, at least in terms of human consciousness, there are two directions that humans are moving in. There are those that are coming down through this division process to these levels, descending, and there are those that are moving back up, which is an addition process, connecting to higher and higher levels of consciousness which are simply interpretations of the One reality that there is. These interpretations, as you ascend, are accepted by increasingly larger groups of beings. When you ascend to higher levels of consciousness, you actually merge with many other beings who accept that same reality.

Val: A gradation of interpretation of the Is-ness.

Drunvalo: Yes. There is really just One reality. So, what happens is that there is a cycle of Life with beings coming down and beings going up. They are all from one Spirit - from God. There is only One life force moving through everything. As life energy moves up through the planes it eventually arrives at the Melchizedek level. As a being moves through the 144 levels and steps into the next octave, through the Great Void, they become the original consciousness of Melchizedek. At that point, they know without a shadow of a doubt that everything that exists is them.

Val: Where did the name Melchizedek come from?

Drunvalo: Well, this is not the first creation. There have been many many other creations. I dont know how many there have been that are based on other principles. This creation was based on the concept of a very simple idea - the sphere. Everything in this existence and every law of physics is located within a sphere. Its provable. From our way of looking at it, there was an aspect of God that was translated into this world that actually existed in other ways before. These are words that in no way can possibly express the truth.

Val: In one lecture conducted by Robert Morning Sky, he discussed the notion that within each Universe there is an ultimate being who has the most experience, who is at any time replaced by another with more experience. Does this seem accurate to you?

Drunvalo: Yes, and that being is not a being as we think of a being, but is a level of consciousness that contains many cells like our body does. It could be comprised of billions of souls as we now think of them, who have achieved a single level of thought. When Melchizedek originally divided and produced Christ consciousness, that immediately created a third component which is the summation of both of them - of All That Is. That being is often called, in Hindu terms, the Supreme Personality. That is the being that most religions pray to and see as the ultimate God. They give it a name and refer to it as the ultimate God, although it is not. It is just the most conscious level of life.

Val: Why would Melchizedek consciousness budd off to create another part of itself?

Drunvalo: Thats a good question, but I think it had to do with the original intent, which is what we are all living right now. An aspect or a possibility of the original intent is that we would know separation and the idea of good and evil. I believe from where I am now thats why. When someone is in human level, trying to interpret these higher levels, its really almost a joke, because those higher levels are an experience that cannot really be interpretable or accurately viewed from this level - it is beyond words and beyond who and what we are at this level.

Val: Where do you yourself come into the process on the planetary level? I think you mentioned at one time that part of your nature was as an observer linked with the Melchizedek level of consciousness.

Drunvalo: There were three very clear directives. The first one was to simply watch the changes that were occurring. Its hard to understand because we are in linear time and we think of past, present and future. There is a place where all things are happening at once. From that place, the person to whom you are now talking directed it into what you call the past to be here now. The second directive was to bring the teaching of the Merkaba back so we could remember what that was about. The third one had to do with the study of relationships during this extraordinary time that this planet is going through. My directive, from my Self to myself, was to become totally grounded in the Earth experience, and to immerse myself in everything - all the problems and everything else, not to remain removed and to not use higher aspects of my Self to help myself. I had to be here in all ways as a human and to find my way out of the problems of life, just as anyone else would.

Val: It is certainly an extraordinary role.

Drunvalo: It is no different to that of everyone else here. Everyone is here in the same situation, and everyone is striving to find the higher level where we can transcend. It is becoming clear to more and more people that the Earth situation here is desperate. Even on a third dimensional level, there has to be a change or we are not going to make it. So, its a situation where its the only way one can learn, and the only way God, or consciousness, can ever learn, is to step into a situation and live it, become it, see what it is, and move on from there.

Val: What is the relationship between the use of belief systems and the use of experiential systems?

Drunvalo: They are linked together. Whatever you experience, whatever you are in the Is-ness, you make a conclusion from that which becomes a belief.

Val: In the Flower of Life workshop, you mentioned the existence of several grids supporting both life, species and consciousness. Would you go into some further detail about those? You mentioned once that the Christ consciousness grid was complete in 1989.

Drunvalo: The grids are electromagnetic in nature. They are detectable. They are not something outside of third dimensional reality, although they have aspects beyond what we know in third dimensional reality. Their third dimensional aspect is electromagnetic in nature. Their construction is geometric in nature, and moves along a line paralleling crystalline structure. Every single species and lifeform on this planet, in order for them to exist, there has to be a structure. All of these grids are different, and there are millions of them. Around the turn of the century there were 30 million of them. Now there are about 14 million of them left.

Val: These grids are what Sheldrake was speaking of - morpho- genetic grids?

Drunvalo: Yes. If you looked at the whole thing, thats how I would see the morphogenetic structure of the biosphere. The one grid is in reality made up of millions. It comes off as a glow from the surface of the Earth, extending from about 60 feet into the Earth to about 60 miles above the Earth. Whenever a species comes into existence, a grid is formed first, before a species can manifest. Before a species leaves, the grid will dissolve or break down as its consciousness leaves.

Val: Presumably, a grid would change to accommodate a change in evolution of a species.

Drunvalo: Thats another thing that happens. The grid will geometrically change, change in intensity, and change in other ways. The grid will change as consciousness grows or evolves. All the grids are changing. Some of them have very slow cycles. The highest form of evolutionary consciousness in 3-D form on the Earth we see as the whales, including the orca, followed by various species of dolphins. Under that come humans. There are three totally different kinds of humans on the Earth, meaning that they perceive the One reality in three different ways, interpreted differently. The first kind of human has a chromosome composition of 42+2. They comprise a unity consciousness that does not see anything outside themselves as being separate from themselves. To them, there is only one energy - one life, one beingness that moves everywhere. Anything happening anywhere is within them, as well. They are like cells in the body. They are all connected to a single consciousness that moves through all of them. These are the aboriginals in Australia. There might be a few African tribes left like this. Then, there is our level, comprising 44+2 chromosomes. We are a disharmonic level of consciousness that is used as a steppingstone from the 42+2 level to the next level, 46+2. We are dangerous to both ourselves and nature, but we are necessary, and this can be seen within the various geometries.

The level above us relates to the grid you were speaking of that was complete in 1989 - the Christ consciousness grid. It took almost 13,000 years to complete it. Over 83,000 sites around the planet were used by higher consciousness to create the Christ grid. It was synthetically created after the fall that happened 13,000 years ago. Now that it is in place, it gives us the ability to move to the next level of consciousness, which many people call Christ consciousness, although it has other names. That grid is extremely strong and is experiencing many changes in its growth pattern.

Val: You were talking about the idea of critical mass relative to this grid?

Drunvalo: Well, in all cases known by the Melchizedek consciousness prior to this one, Earth, there has always been a specific pattern of growth that planets have gone through. They have entered into this level of consciousness where they see themselves as within a body, and that everything outside is separate. Its a very specific step in evolution, and they finally come to this point of unity where they make the step forward, and a certain number of beings will make the transition from this level to the next. Its usually a very small number, and this is what many are called but few are chosen means. Very few usually have the insight, courage and other attributes to actually step into a higher level world.

Val: A world that reflects 46+2 chromosomes. This time, however, you mentioned that everyone would make the transition, and that was the unique nature of this situation.

Drunvalo. Yes. You'll go through a mutation, both internally and externally, where your chromosomes change from 44+2 to 46+2. You gain two more chromosomes. The other 44 are exactly the same as humans now. These two additional chromosomes change everything.

Val: What exactly is it with these two chromosomes?

Drunvalo: Each chromosome is really a geometrical image, and within each of these huge amounts of information are contained. The DNA uses this information to enable it to resonate with the higher-level Christ grid on the next level.

Val: There are some that maintain that humans had these extra chromosomes at one time and that they were deliberately removed.

Drunvalo: I assume you are talking about the Nephilim.

Val: No. Just the general notion.

Drunvalo: There are those that maintain this, and books that have been written that maintain this was done on purpose. I do believe that there has been a tremendous amount of experimentation on humans in the past, and a lot of it was done on DNA and the spinal column. But, I feel that the problem that developed was not deliberate in the sense that consciousness tried to stop them, but that we did it ourselves through what happened in Atlantean times, with the misuse of creation patterns.

Val: In books like the Keys of Enoch, for example, you can take a peek into the technology that allows photonic manipulation of DNA and the manipulative tendencies of the Jahovah complex of beings, presumably at an earlier stage in their evolution when they felt they had to manipulate and control.

Drunvalo: There was a lot of that.

Val: It is for this reason that the Keys of Enoch is a useful piece of work to have on hand, in order to gain insight into what went on.

Drunvalo: The Keys of Enoch is very valuable.

Val: What do you see now relative to these higher beings who did this, and where it stands now on the apparent edge of critical mass.

Drunvalo: To answer that I have to come back to the discussion of critical massing. Usually what is seen is a small number of beings consciously making it through to the other side - the other level of the planet. Then, over a long long period of time, the Christ aspect would gradually pull the rest over. As it pulls them through and the Unity gets to a certain critical mass, suddenly it reaches a certain level and the consciousness of the whole planet, overnight, transcends into this higher level. We have reached critical mass on the Earth, but it has been on an unconscious level. We are talking about consciously reaching it in the model we just gave. We as a planet only have a very few people who are actually conscious of what is going on. The number is growing by the minute. Most of the planet was connected to the Christ-grid unconsciously. In their hearts, these people no longer want to live the way that we are living. They dont like the war, rape, murder and all that garbage that we have now come in to. In their hearts, they want to live a simpler, more connected spiritual way of life, without all this fear. Because so many people have unconsciously connected to this, we reached critical mass a long time ago, but nothing happened - it just kept right on going. It almost happened, but thats a long story.

Val: It almost happened back during the Gulf War, when the world was united albeit against Saddam Hussein. The experience of being united, even against something, established a precedent to be expanded on in the future.

Drunvalo: Right, exactly. We never totally went into unity. This has called the highest level of human awareness, which is termed the ascended masters, to have to adapt to the situation, and they have adapted by creating a controlled level of expansion, instead of reaching critical mass and suddenly going after the entire planet. So, the evolution is happening. Where we are now is that we have reached a situation no one has ever seen before, where in the hearts of man almost every person in the world is now connected to the Christ-grid consciousness. There are very few that have not.

Val: Some would probably ask the question: what would one expect to see on a visible level to indicate that a change is in progress, when in fact it seems so dark and chaotic out there?

Drunvalo: Well, as an example I might refer to what we talked about before about MGM studios recent poll of audience preferences which indicated that the preference were moving away from sex and violence toward things like ancient wisdom. That indicates an incredible change within us. This is here in the United States, one of the most die-hard places in the world. It happened in a 90 day period - they conduct these polls every 90 days.

Val: It might seem that the way technology is going, what with Disney owning ABC, Westinghouse owning CBS, General Electric owning NBC and Time Warner owning CNN, combined with advanced manipulative technology, some of which is reminiscent of Montauk, that these trends would be countered to the degree that they are occurring.

Drunvalo: Well, I realize that there is that potential and possibility, and I realize that they are deeply exploring ways of controlling the emotions, thoughts and actions of people. I know that this is in place and that they are going to proceed with it to the utmost degree. But, I also believe that there has been a huge change within our government internally, because they're seeing the biggest picture that they can see. They are getting to the place where they are realizing that there has to be a different kind of approach to control, to a way of dealing with their environment. On the highest levels of the secret government, they know that they can't reach separation like they have wanted to for a long time.

Val: The elite vs. Non-elite.

Drunvalo: Yes. They have realized that we are going through a dimensional consciousness change and that the nature of the reality is that there is only One life force moving through it all. They have realized that the idea of dualism isn't true.

Val: Since a lot of New World Order proponents have built all these underground facilities in an effort to escape upcoming changes and preserve the paradigm of elitism, I guess the joke is on them?

Drunvalo: Yes, it is. They know that all that stuff is worthless now. But, they are not going to throw it away. I can tell you that for sure. They are going to keep it in place. They are going to cover every one of their bases. But, they know that it is not going to work. They know that, in truth, even the lowest aspect of the population is connected. This idea has reached them pretty deeply. The secret government has a very high level of understanding, and they have - at this point - very high levels of experiential understanding.

Val: How and when did that happen?

Drunvalo: It happened between 1985 and 1987, when they were planning total separation and planning to move the elite en masse to Mars, using the Moon as a transit station. Then, they found out that the polar shift that we are about to enter in to not only happens here - it happens on every planet in the system at the same time. They discovered that the actual plane of the Sun was shifting and that the planets were all going to realign themselves, and that this was beyond their capability to deal with. They went through many changes very rapidly over a period of seven to nine months where they came out and realized that they had been lied to by the Greys and many ETs, and the true reason the Greys were here and what it was really about - that what the Greys were really doing wasn't what they were telling the government.

Val: What exactly was that, in a nutshell?

Drunvalo: Well, the ETs came here and told the government they were basically God and here for benevolent reasons, to help them evolve and all this other stuff. They wanted to do experiments and understand us more. So, they were going to do animal and human experiments in exchange for more advanced technology.

Val: They are still doing the abductions and the cattle mutilations.

Drunvalo: Yes, but there was a big gap in there, if you remember. There were thousands of mutilations all over the world and they suddenly stopped, at least to that degree. That's when a huge translation was taking place in consciousness. They have resumed in the last four or five months, but on a minuscule level - nothing like it was before. They only need to know a little bit more, evidently. They didn't quite get done with what they had to do, although on one level they were done. They understood that All-That-Is in this octave of the universe is about to make a translation into another octave of universes - a huge change is about to occur, and it occurs very very fast. It's already taking place on many levels, and we are in the midst of it. The Greys knew that this was going to take place, and they also knew from their experiments that their particular type of race - a race based on the Luciferian understanding of separation from the rest of reality - cannot create a living Merkaba field because they have no emotional body - just a mental body, and they can create only a technological Merkaba field - that is used to power their physical craft. They are 100% dependent on technology to exist. They can't take their technology through the Great Void. No object can pass through.

Val: So now the government, who has a vast collection of all these ET spacecraft ...

Drunvalo: The government is not going to stop the direction that they are going and what they are doing. They are in a position of money and power, and they are also not going to stop their investigation into the Merkaba, but are at the same time now aware that the Greys are helpless and had to come to us, because we still have an emotional body, which is critical to the creation of a living Merkaba field - or a living flying saucer from a low-level way of thinking about it.

Val: So they created the hybrid program in an attempt to integrate the human emotional body in order to save themselves?

Drunvalo: They cannot save who they are, but they can only save the essence of who they are by combining with us. By taking their genes and human genes and mixing them together, they created a third totally unique race. This race is different than both species.

Val: What do you suppose the government thought about this?

Drunvalo: I dont think they totally understood what the Greys were up to, and as the Greys began to build underground cities around the planet, they became extremely strong. I am sure the government was even fearful at some stage. Once they had created this race, their intention was to totally eliminate the human race and replace us on the planet with the hybrid race.

Val: Wasn't this the goal of the reptilian species?

Drunvalo: That is even a further removed scenario.

Val: The reptilians appear to be a matriarchal race with strong connections to government intelligence agencies.

Drunvalo: Yes, I think they do, but my inner guidance is not too concerned about that, on who they are and what they are about.

Val: On another level, a preoccupation with kinds of aliens, per se, reflects a preoccupation with body consciousness - body identification - when in fact it is the entities using the bodies that are the operative factor, not the bodies or the appearance thereof. In the final analysis it makes the whole alien issue a moot point.

Drunvalo: Yes, I agree with that. It is a moot point really, but we were talking about it from a third dimensional level. If you go to a higher viewpoint, its all one single body, and they are all just cells. All life everywhere, just like the cells in a body, has a purpose and a specialized function. It's all integrated. Life, on a bigger scale, is watching what is going on here. Life, on a bigger scale, could have stopped the Greys and all those who are working with them, in a nanosecond if it wanted to. But it didn't, because since we have components of Grey blood within us, we are related to them. We are also part of the Lucifer Rebellion. They have a galactic legal right to do what they are doing. They cannot be stopped from a legal point of view. I am not saying that the Greys are bad or good. It is what the intentions were, from a human point of view. Actually, they are serving a very high purpose in what they are doing.

Coming back to the government, though, they have been through many many steps in all of this. The government has now reached a point where they have made a really big change. I have seen that the FBI has been connected to the work I have been doing from the very beginning, when they came in and showed their badges and indicated that they wanted to study what I was doing. At one point, the FBI came in and said they wanted to help me and give me money, and they wanted to see what I was doing, where it went and what the result would be. Of course, since I was talking about Merkaba energy fields, it was a big subject to them because technologically equivalent fields are what power the UFOs. They wanted to know what it was all about. They didn't try to stop me. Recently, the FBI was at my last workshop in November. Again, they came in and identified themselves. It is pretty clear that they are extremely concerned, not just for the United States. The FBI has gone beyond that. They are concerned about the whole world, and keeping peace as much as possible during this transition. They know we are going through a consciousness transition. They know what is happening on a lot of levels.

Val: It seems admirable on their part, but it is irreconcilable with what is happening externally - the nature of the presidential administrations, the drug dealing, etc. How do you reconcile this whole thing?

Drunvalo: You have to look at how it grew. What the structure was that grew into it. It grew into a place where it was looking only at the United States and the fearful nature of all of that. You have to look at how economic factors have collapsed all over the world, and yet we are still supposed to be the big guys that support the structure of everything. So, they have resorted to the same means that people in New York City have resorted to. The city is economically collapsed. If you took drug money out of New York City, the city would be destroyed over night.

Val: Do you feel that the proportion of the faction within the so-called elite that understands this will ever grow to the point where you will have a perceptible sociological positive "we might as well do it the right way" type of change?

Drunvalo: I don't see that right away.

Val: So, we'll go through the transition before that would ever happen?

Drunvalo: Its going to be close. I dont know. After the FBI attended my last workshop, they sent me a thank you letter on White House stationary, so what we are seeing here is that there is a change. They know. I am not really concerned about them at this point. I think that they might end up being more of an asset then anyone might ever guess they'd be, in the future. I do feel that they have come along to a place where they understand the Oneness.

Val: They, specifically being who?

Drunvalo: Whoever it is more or less in control. At the same time, I know that they are going to continue to do what they are doing - everything they are doing to try to control the entire planet is not going to stop. Also at the same time, they know that many factors are completely out of their control. There is nothing they can do about it. They are preparing us for it. They would not do that for a long time. When the Roswell crash happened in 1947, they would not allow us to know what took place there, probably because of what happened ten years earlier with the war of the worlds broadcast, where people were killing themselves. They decided not to say anything. They are now coming to the place where they have made the decision to let us know, and they are using the media to do that.

Val: Things could well be done in such a way as to manipulate the population. In other words, present an external threat to the population in order to control it....

Drunvalo: They could do that, but I don't think they will do that.

Val: Why not?

Drunvalo: Because I think that the primary people in control there realize the nature of the change. It has penetrated into them. They know they are not going to have a third dimensional base here much longer, anyway. They know that we are going to move as an Earth-Soul into another level. It's not going to be something where a certain person can move ahead of the rest of the planet. The planet has to move as an individual, in terms of what is about to happen. The planet may make some changes in the inhabitants that are here now and rearrange the structures through space and time, so that everybody is in the place that is most appropriate for them. I am not saying there will not be huge changes in the near future that might involve many souls leaving this place, but all of it is for the purpose that Mother Earth comes into a place where the cells that are left - the people that are left - are in absolute unity. Many of these will include people in the government. I think there is going to be a big change. They know it, and they know that the kind of things they are headed toward controlling with a big stick - forcing us to stay in peace....if we did go into chaos, say if the stock market crashed, and we are still here in the third dimension, they would probably use that stuff, because they know that the only way we're going to get out of here in one piece is if we stay intact.

Val: Some might ask, why would these self-declared elite care?

Drunvalo: Because they now know that you and I and them is really One. They do know that.

Val: It's almost too good to be true that they would get out of the Darwinian/Malthusian control paradigms.

Drunvalo: I'm not saying that they want to change the status quo of things like the financial aspects of the planet. I don't think they are even considering that.

Val: They will run it until it can run no more?

Drunvalo: Well, they are looking at a short-term thing here. We don't have a lot of time left here.

Val: The time compression wave indicates a large structure- breaking plunge into a novelty-creating situation around February 1996. How do you view things at this time in terms of events or trends?

Drunvalo: Well, there are many huge and rapid changes energetically that will come upon the Earth in the next few years. When we actually move into the 4th dimension I'm not even sure. Thats just a wave of energy. But, as far as moving into higher levels beyond Earth consciousness, we only have until the end of 2012. In terms of the long term thing with planet Earth, there isn't one, and maybe someone is off by two years or even ten years.

Val: It may be next month, for all we know.

Drunvalo: Right. We are looking at a calendar that says it is 1995, but is it really?

Val: There have been many people who have pointed out that the Gregorian calendar may be off seven to ten years, in terms of the actual linear date, and that this may now be 2002 or later. After experimenting with the time wave, I found that making 1997 as the end point, as opposed to 2012, creates the same type of waveform, and that either waveform indicates a very significant period between January and March 1996. A huge break in structure takes place that is the first of six before the end of the continuum as we know it.

Drunvalo: I feel it coming, and I think it's going to hit about the last week of January 1996.

Val: What exactly do you feel about the nature of what is coming at the end of January 1996?

Drunvalo: I just feel this huge energy. It's incredible. An eclipse took place that was centered over Japan around October 23rd. The nature of that particular kind of eclipse happens every so often, usually about 50 years. Whenever it comes up, the reaction to it happens 90 days later. The last time that eclipse came up, it was centered over Europe. Exactly 90 days later World War II began in Europe.

Val: So obviously this roughly coincides with the plunge indicated for the time compression wave.

Drunvalo: Well, for this one the 90 day period ends around the 23rd of January 1996. Since it is centered over Japan, my feeling and intuition is telling me that it involves the stock market. But, this huge amount of energy doesnt have to be negative. It can be positive. If the consciousness of the planet is aware and it is in harmony, it could be a place of growth. If it is unconscious and dreaming all these fearful dreams, then it will go into a huge darkness.

Val: And the process for maintaining oneself in the face of chaos...

Drunvalo: This is something we teach in the Flower of Life workshop, especially in the advanced workshop. Basically, its meditation...connecting...knowing beyond a shadow of a doubt that the presence of God is within and all around you at all times. Knowing that there is a total connection there at all times, and in knowing that absolute connection to the reality, and to All-That-Is, knowing that all these different aspects, whether seen as positive or negative, are all part of a perfect growth plan that is not an accident. Its all part of what Is. We have been around forever, and we will always be around. When someone really knows their connection to God and to all life, then these kind of changes can be watched with great interest and not with any kind of fear, worry, or anything else.

Val: I suppose it would be easier for those individuals who have had near-death experiences or out of the body experiences, in essence those who have gained a feeling of personal continuity within the universe, to handle these things.

Drunvalo: Yes, that is another way to say it. If you know..... if you don't know, and you really think that you are a little being inside a body and everything out there is totally out of your control and has no connection to you --- that way of interpreting reality, which many people have, it's going to be a very fearful situation. That kind of person needs to begin to do internal work. They need to begin to work on their emotional bodies, physical bodies and get into a spiritual path and begin to understand the nature of who they are. That is the main problem. People are still deep into polarity consciousness and are scared to death. That, of course, is the problem. If we were all sitting in the place of unity and love, we could ride this into a whole new way of experiencing the One reality, which involves pure bliss and beauty. We are not, but we are getting there very fast in a totally unique way. We have chosen a pathway that no one has ever chosen before. No one has ever seen it. We are moving at incredible speed and evolving in completely unique ways. It appears now that we are going to come into this place...everybody....is going to this place of understanding where we understand that there is only One Spirit moving through everything, so deeply and experientially within our heart, that we will be able to make this transition. To a reader reading this, it probably seems like fantasy, because of what is going on....because outwardly it looks pretty crazy.

Val: You mentioned in the Flower of Life workshop certain indications that a dimensional interface was in progress.... indications that could be observed that would lead one to a realization that it was happening, so a person would then know to center oneself...

Drunvalo: There are certain signs that do occur as a planet moves from third dimension into fourth dimension or density. Usually what occurs is the second level of consciousness, which is disharmonic, begins to break down and destroy itself. Ultimately, as we approach the end of the cycle, it does break down. It does not mean that it will this time. I highly doubt that it will, this time. I don't think we are going to get much of a warning. Usually what happens is that the world falls apart -- the financial and social structure breaks down and falls apart and it becomes an extremely dangerous time to try to make it through, because people are killing each other in a total survival mode. That usually happens anywhere from about two years to three or four months before the change. So, speaking in terms of this planet, there is a time when you cannot get food, water, money, or anything -- it goes nuts. That is what prompts all these prophets to tell people to store away food and water. Not to prepare for the shift, but for the period of chaos before it, trying to keep people in their bodies before they can make the transition.

Val: Not that it would make any difference if you were or were not in a body, the transition would happen anyway.

Drunvalo: That's right. It does anyway, though the mother aspect of the Earth is going to want to try to protect us on those levels. Its going to be put right into the paradigm. Its just natural for it to want to do that. But, it really doesnt make any difference. It doesn't make any difference if you die right now, because you will just go into a fourth dimensional place, and from there you will go on to a higher level anyway, because that is what is happening in the universe. Or, if you resurrect and die consciously, you're going to go there.....if you ascend, and move consciously from within the body, the result is the same. It doesnt matter what happens to you right now. We are in an upward wave, and that is where we are going, one way or another, even if it means going to another evolutionary pattern on another wavelength that is appropriate for each person.

Val: Once everyone is there, I suppose that you would create whatever you would want to create. What you think manifests itself.

Drunvalo: It's what you think and feel. Your feelings also manifest in the same kind of way as your thoughts.

Val: Do you view the appearance of things like the alchemical white gold as a harbinger of things to come, or at least interesting in terms of timing?

Drunvalo: I am not sure Mother Earth is going to use this avenue. She may and she may not. I see the Earth as fully awake and conscious now in terms of evolution. Its proceeding ahead, and making these changes. People are finding the white gold in the dirt. They are finding whole veins of this stuff, whereas no one ever found it like that before, and no one ever cared. She is going to do whatever it takes, and adapt in any way, and give us whatever we need to make sure we are safe and proceed as a planet, as a race, onto the next level. There may be things coming in the future that we could not imagine. Even a little bit further in the future there will be things that would now be considered as absolutely impossible, will happen.

Val: For example?

Drunvalo: Well, if I use an example it will be my imagination, because I do not know what Earth is going to do, but the Earth could do things which would dramatically change the consciousness- equation on the Earth. What if the plasma-ship thing going on in Mexico right now was verified?

Val: Would you elaborate on that?

Drunvalo: Well, about three years ago, coinciding with the Fifth Sun of the Mayan Calendar, there was a solar eclipse over Mexico City. Seventeen cameras also caught what appeared to be a space ship hovering over the city. They now have over 200 cameras showing the space ship sitting there. From that moment on, ships have been visible in Mexico -- only in Mexico. These ships are coming closer and closer to the ground and allowing people to see them. The Mexican Broadcasting Company has now acknowledged that these UFOs are real and that they are all over Mexico. They are showing them on Mexican television. The Mexican government has announced that they are real, and that they are not going to do anything...that they believe that they are peaceful and relate to higher levels consciousness. I just spoke with six people outside of Mexico City in October, and one of them had come from this town south of Mexico City, a town of 12,000 people. Every single man, woman and child in this town has seen a UFO every single day for the last six months. They are hovering over the town. They are landing next to apartment buildings. The beings are getting out and allowing themselves to be photographed on video cameras.

Val: Are there any indications of who these beings are or where they are from?

Drunvalo: This is very interesting, and you know if you have been following what I have been saying, that UFOs are primarily Luciferian. So, I don't see it as such a great thing that they are coming here. But, these are different. These are living Merkaba fields, and they actually have videos of these. They show these ships divide in half and divide again right in space. They have watched them disappear and then appear a quarter mile away, instantaneously. They have taken a photograph of one of these ships from directly underneath it. When they subjected the photograph to computer analysis, they found that what the photograph depicts appears to be identical to a human cell. It appears to be alive. The ship appears to be a living being. They found that as these beings get on a ship, the ship gets bigger. If some get off, the ship gets smaller. Videos of these beings show them walking right through each other. They are just pure light.

Val: So, we are talking about a group Merkaba.

Drunvalo: That's right. They are living fields that have a brilliant orange-white light. The beings are glowing, and they bounce all over the screen on the video.

Val: Is it important to ask what or who these beings are?

Drunvalo: All I know is this. In the latest video that I just got from them, they have traced them to where they are coming from. They are coming out of the worlds second largest volcano, south of Mexico City. There are people sitting on the rim of the volcano watching these ships coming out. It is the belief of most of the people down there that they are coming out of inner earth. The dimensional levels go into the Earth just as they go out from the Earth. They appear to be coming right out of the Earth. They have photographs of these beings. They have heads about 20 inches long shaped like an eggplant, with two little antennae, and two small eyes. Their faces are so bright with light that you can hardly see them. They have a tiny little body that is not much bigger than their head. They have allowed people within 30 feet of them. When the FBI attended my last workshop, I asked them what they thought about what was going on down in Mexico. They indicated that they do not understand what it was, only that it was being staged, meaning that they are just sitting there allowing themselves to be photographed. They don't know who they are, where they are from or what is going on. For that reason, they have blacked out this information in the United States. They did talk about it at a UFO conference, and one of the TV shows showed some of the original footage. For some reason, these beings are isolating themselves within the boundaries of Mexico, and not going out of there until just recently, when they started seeing them over Japan. I find that interesting, because that is where this other type of solar eclipse was. So, there being a 90 day difference between the solar eclipse in Japan and the plasma-beings' subsequent appearance in Japan, it may well be that this thing that happens in January 1996 is not at all what we may think it is. It might be that Japan might actually accept that they're there. Its one thing to have a third world country like Mexico do it, but what is the United States going to do if Japan says they're there? If they do, within 24 hours this whole planet will be completely, totally different. We won't be the same. All human beings will be completely altered. Just by the fact that we acknowledge life on our planet outside of ourselves. It is going to do something huge. Those kind of things could be part of a master plan of Mother Earth to raise us up into a higher level of awareness.

Val: I guess you couldn't break structure any more than that.

Drunvalo: This is really moving fast. I have been keeping tabs on it. There are people coming from all over the world to go down there. People coming back were shaken. They saw them. There they were. They were real. That's the kind of thing that could jar us into a higher level of consciousness. It could be something right out of science fiction that Mother Earth uses to do this.

Val: There have been a lot of scenarios that have been put out there in which the government uses technology to create holo- graphic imagery in order to manipulate the population toward negative ends. Technology capable of mimicking a Maitreya telepathic projection worldwide, the so-called Project Blue Beam, etc. What you are saying is that this kind of functional mechanism is actually part of the natural process that will occur anyway, regardless of human participation?

Drunvalo: Yes, I think that Mother Earth has that option now, because as a planet she is waking up, and she's gaining control of who she is and what is taking place here. Things could happen outside of what we would normally think of as occurring.

Val: You indicated once that the French nuclear testing on the 19.5 degree grids are essentially backfiring, insofar as it has produced effects not anticipated by those behind the testing.

Drunvalo: The volcano in Mexico where these ships and beings are coming out of is also at 19.5 degrees. Mother Earth knows everything. She knew that the French were going to do this testing. In response to that, she sped up evolution in such a way that would be hard to explain to your readership, but she changed the nature of the construction of the grid in a way that is beyond the understanding of science today, though we are just approaching that understanding, to strengthen it's quality so that it would be impervious to anything human technology could do to it. The test location is in the south pole of the Christ- Consciousness grid. The north pole is in Egypt, and you can't set off an atomic bomb there and get away with it. They are not going to stop trying to do everything they can to try to control the whole situation. They are schizophrenic right now. They are setting off nuclear devices at the same time others in the same group are preparing for planetary unity, knowing in truth that is where they have to go. There are still too many aspects within them that do not truly understand what we are going through. If the whole body of the elite understood, then they could drop all this stuff. We would know it instantly. There are too many of them that do not comprehend. To appease those that do not understand, the other half is letting them go on with this kind of activity.

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