Aud: He was very intellectual tonight. You would have been proud.

Yada: We have been hoping, for some time now, that Mark would speak for himself; speak about life in his way and not give it all to us.

Aud: I think he is doing this more and more.

Q: Yada, did you hear what he asked tonight at dinner?

Yada: Yes, of course.

Aud: Which one will we hear first?

Yada: Would you like your boring friend, Professor Alfred Luntz?

Aud: Serves me right.

Yada: So I will withdraw, but I want to stand by to see if he really can put anybody to sleep. He is a very wonderful being, on the road to learning, like you. But always he must be given his own time to learn in - otherwise, he will not learn very well. It is the same with yourselves, if you would give yourself time; do not get in a hurry. You are not going anywhere, anyhow. And you know, my friends, you have more time than anything else, to do everything you have to do. I will come back and talk later again. Please pardon me...

Prof. Luntz: How do you do! I am Professor Alfred Luntz. It is my pleasure to be here, and this is the first time I have been in this home, eh? I think you have heard me talk before, eh?

Aud: Yes, just one tape. You were very profound and very interesting.

Prof: Thank you very much. Yes, but somehow or other, I do not feel profound. I feel very, very shallow. The water of intelligence, of wisdom, of knowledge which I am in, is only deep enough for me to wade in up to my ankles perhaps. But I can't complain. That's better than no water at all, eh? To all of you my friends, I greet you, it is a marvelous feeling to be able to come here. To be able to come to the earth this way, gives me practice for the time I will come back here as a baby. We all need practice. As you know, I am hoping to be an architect. Is that too much, sirs?

Aud: I wish you luck. It is a changing field. The room for personal expression has changed a great deal from the architecture you had in 1812.

Prof: Ghastly! Observe this, all things change by the changing of feelings in the minds of the individuals who come in any particular period of time, any era. They come at a time when these things can be understood better, and so they produce in a better manner, in every field. Every age has its own creations, the creations that are not seen at any previous time and will not be seen at any future time. Everything belongs to its own particular time frame, and if any of you desire to counter that or disqualify it, go ahead.

Aud: Are there set time frames for different types of things?

Prof: Yes, set up as a feeling. And, as an individual comes into that particular frame of time, he gets those feelings. He walks in them and they impress him; he becomes sensitive to them. Perhaps I could make that a bit clearer by comparing it with, for example, certain parts of the world. There are centers which are more conducive for artists and writers or other creative people, than other parts of the world. People have been going to these centers for years on end, and leaving their creative thoughts at those centers. So other sensitive persons coming into those centers, immediately become communicative with those memory patterns left there. There is all kinds of haunting going on, on the earth. Some good, some bad, some indifferent, but all, very necessary for a whole variety of individuals. We are all different, thank the Good Lord for that! Does that upset you, my saying, "Thank the Lord?"

Aud: Yada has taught us to say, "It's your dream".

Prof: Jolly for him, it is. Coming back to the earth may not seem so exciting to some who have had a painful life on earth, they naturally would want to get away from it. They seek no return engagements, as it were. And, when they hear of someone else's death, they relate their experiences with that person and think he is going to have that troubled time, that painful time, that illness of life. I never had pain, never so much as a headache. I know not what an aspirin tablet tastes like, nor a tranquilizer, which your modern people seem to wake yourself up and put yourself to sleep with, in your rather burly, burly world. Now, I intend to be here in approximately 17 years, perhaps a little more, not much more, and I have been studying architectural design, and I hope to be that when I get here. Part of my work through Mark, is learning to get a feel of the physical world again, so that when I get here; I will have some memory, because I am going to have to block out the memory of one called, "Professor Alfred Luntz". He has had it! I am going to be another character.

That is as it should be; and I do not think it at all helpful for people to be seeking out what they were in some past life, with hope it will do them some good in this life. I don't think it will do a damn bit of good. Live the life you are in, try to enjoy it, and when you leave it, be happy to leave it and be happy to go wherever it is you find yourself. In short, live your life. Be it. LIVE YOU. That's pretty dammed hard to do, isn't it?

Aud: You are a very different person than when I met you two years ago. What kind of time lapse do you call that? How many times have you been back, through Mark's body? How do you handle time lapse between visits?

Prof: Time is for convenience. It is - - - - do you feel any time lapse between your dream and waking up?

Aud: No.

Prof: Of course not. You may say, "I feel tired", or "rested", but you do not say, "I feel eight o'clock or ten o'clock". And so it is, in your life as it is in mind, because we live in consciousness. We do not live in our made-up world, a nice little dream that often becomes a nightmare, anymore than we know why we go to sleep and have nightmares or beautiful dreams. Why? Only the dreamer can know that, and he has to look into himself to find out why. If I am anxious about what I am doing, I may make a monster out of my dream with that anxiety. We get more satisfaction out of the dream than when awake. Sensation is much more acute in dream than reality.

If you are dreaming something humorous and then when you wake up, the reason for laughter disappears and you can't feel the sense of humor you felt in the dream. Not too long ago, Mark had a dream in which he felt as though someone behind him was driving a steel rod into the back of his head. The pain was so excruciating that he wanted to scream, but couldn't, the pain was too great. What do you suppose that was? There was a certain party who had considerable annoyance about what he thought Mark did. And he knew enough about magical practices to send pain. We let it happen for Mark's experience, to show that you can be attacked by other beings, in or out of the physical world. The man in the street, the lay person, has not the remotest idea of how true these things are.

Aud: How do you protect yourself?

Prof: We have told Mark how to protect himself before retiring at night, but he occasionally doesn't do it. Isn't that strange? People want to know how, they go the doctor and the doctor tells them and he hopes they will follow through. But how many do? They go and buy a substance and take a dose or two and forget it until they are down again. Then, back to the doctor. There is a way. Do you believe in concentrated thought, in power of mind, to protect you? That's what prayer is for, simple prayer. Our Father offers a great deal of protection for those who believe. But you must believe in it.

Aud: I know someone who has been attacked many times.

Prof: I have seen this often. Psychic attack. It is not too well known to psychologists and psychiatrists. Perhaps in some near future, they will make an effort to realize there are forces of life, quite apart from the individual, which can set up conditions in that individual which are deadly to the nervous system first, and then to the glandular system, which then poisons the whole body.

Aud: Do you have any suggestions as to what she can do?

Prof: If she would, every night before she retires, walk if possible around her bed; and in concentrated thought feeling, build a light, a thought light around the bed and around her body, by making sweeping passes with hands clasped together; and bring them back and say, "I am in the Light and of the Light and nothing can enter except what is right for me." Do this three times. The mind is the only real protection of the body. It is also the destroyer of the body. Many times, forces which attack are not human; are called elementals. They are sometimes created by the living, who have hatred for you.

The ancient Kahunas make a practice of trying to reach everyone they have harmed in one year and ask their forgiveness. You know, most of us hurt others without ever knowing we do it. So, I think it better not to go around to individuals we think we have harmed, but rather to forgive ourselves. We must do that. If we do not forgive ourselves, we are not forgiven. The Kahunas were fire walkers. There are many other tribes who are fire walkers. None walk on fire until they make rituals with themselves and that great eternal being. We are born with it. We must come to peace with it.

Aud: Yada has coached us into understanding that, on the other side, you are in a position to observe, but, in a waiting period. When you were in England in 1884, I doubt if you made any reference to the Kahunas.

Prof: Only as I stay here, I get an awareness that is, even to me, astounding! I am not the same person, I am not Alfred Luntz, who put his body on the bed in 1893 and walked away from it.

Aud: Why don't you want to come back as a clergyman?

Prof: It wouldn't help because the churchgoers are not Christians, but temple attenders. I didn't know that then. I looked at my congregation and thought, "What a marvelous..... Now, some that I taught at that time, thought that if they died, and were saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, they would pop right into heaven. Now, some of these who, in the passing years, have followed me over here, want to punch me in the nose! They did not get any closer to heaven than I did.

Aud: Have you encountered Mary Baker Eddy?

Prof: Yes. And the contact was rather distressing. Avery nice person, well meaning, but extremely domineering. She wanted things for herself mostly, like all humans. She "did her thing".

Aud: You mentioned seeing Mark Probert dream. We in the physical body, are our dreams more or less open books to the other side?

Prof: No, these dreams of man are open to those who are capable of reading them, not out of curiosity, or thought of using them to scandalize.

Aud: An adverse entity on your side could . . . .?

Prof: Very much so! And that is why sometimes in dreams, you can get physically attacked. Your dream is produced by a feeling in the first place. We are all made up of feelings and attitudes to our feelings; and we take these into our dream world and try to tell ourselves something of what we feel is going on in the dream. If you are deeply lost in sexual drive, and you take this into your dream and invite beings who will . . . and involve you in the tremendous satisfaction of it, until later, you will not be able to get anything close to that in the physical world. So you will be constantly wanting to go to sleep, enticed by desire - - a remembrance. Those same beings can turn that drive against you, in such a manner as to destroy you.

Sex is normal, like food or drink, one of man's normal needs. But sex is important, second to eating, it is of no satisfaction on an empty stomach. How I have grown and expanded. I had a beautiful wife, two charming daughters. I was a big man, six feet, four inches, perhaps I'm bragging, six feet, two inches, we always rant to be bigger than we are! So, I was a powerful man, well developed, never sick. But the Victorian Age, in which I lived, frustrated me from living the way I felt inside. I was constantly wearing a mask. I said, "I'm a clergyman, sex is for procreation, not for fun, for relaxation, not for bringing two people closer together. No. God forbid." But I found out "God" didn't forbid, it was the environment! Now I want to come back in a free-er environment and I hope I do not want to come back in a woman's body with a man's mind.

Aud: Regarding architecture in your day, monument building. Now we are more concerned with. . . .

Prof: It's difficult to say. My point, or your point, could lead to more valuable points. I don't feel any concern about what's going to happen when I get back here. The architectural field will be much further advanced. You will be building round homes with roofs of plexiglass and some will be made of real glass which shuts out the more potent rays and lets in beneficial ones. Man is a marvelous creator, a tremendous mind. There is nothing he cannot do, if he sets his mind to it. Isn't that wonderful! That is, if his thoughts do not destroy him before he gets around to wonderful things. In the past, you know, thoughts have brought civilization to violent ends. Man became so damnably clever that he atomized himself. And he could do it again. Thank you for saying that I was boring. You were right no doubt, so you spoke truth and it has given me a boost, helped me to know more of what you want.

Aud: Dr. Einstein, in the theory of fission, did your world herald this as a great decision?

Prof: It was noticed by some, and it was talked about by humans who had been destroyed by blast in Nagasaki and Hiroshima. But all has quieted down now, as it always does. Mind can't go on dreaming about experiences. Change comes through these various attitudes. We become bored. For 40 years, 50, 52 years, I had a wife and two daughters, a family. And as the children came along, I felt my wife's attention turning away from me to the children. She was a clever woman and from time to time would make believe I was there. So, her detachment from sex caused me to become detached from it. I am not blaming it on her. The most marvelous experience becomes trite and it wears on one, if they keep at it long enough. I have jolly well seen her since we came over here, but we have nothing in common. She is still going on with the religious bit and thinks of me as a fallen former angel. She's a dear soul, always was, but our thoughts keep us apart where once they held us together.

Aud: I'll never refer to you as a bore again.

Prof: If I merit it, why not?

Aud: We have an obligation not to tax Mark too much and we have made a promise to have Dr. Nikkioi here tonight. Is it in your power?

Prof: Not in my power, but his, and your wanting him makes it possible. So ta, ta.




Sister Theresa: Forgive me please, I have been a little afraid of coming through Mark with his beard. I am Sister Theresa, I have not been in this home before. I give my love, my greetings to Mr. and Mrs. Histers, to you dears. It has been some months since I have come through Mark. It gives me double pleasure to come again and come here in this beautiful home. I bless it with the Light. To those of you who have not heard me before, who have not known of me, I now extend you my warmest greetings.

Aud: You are being very brave.

Sister T: One must work up some courage to do very much living. Fear. I once gave a talk some years ago, and I was flattered to have it recorded on a long-playing record.

Aud: What year?

Sister T: I think 1955 or 1958.

Aud: Through Mark?

Sister T: Yes and I gave a talk on The Fear of Failure, for children. This is part of the cause of children having to wear glasses early in life, fear that they will not see and therefore be called stupid or ignorant, adding to their own sense of frustration and failure. Too many parents have a way of saying to children, "Why aren't you as smart as Johnny next door, or Mary? You are a very stupid child. Why don't you learn your lessons? Why do you disgrace us?

When I lived on earth, I was a teacher of little Catholic children. Since coming here, I have continued to be a teacher. It is my life work, helping little minds to become big minds strong minds. I kept my robes because little Catholic children would recognize me and come to me not frightened. The church goes on here, in pretty much the same way as on earth. This gives Catholic people, especially those who take teachings on faith alone, a measure of safety. To that extent, I feel it is a valuable work.

Aud: Do children who have never known the Catholic church, come to you more willingly?

Sister T: Yes, unless their parents on earth caused them to frightened of Catholic teaching. Isn't it a shame we must segregate ourselves from other teachings, other children, other adults, by our antagonisms? Why can't we just love everything? Truth is everywhere! No one has a monopoly on truth, on Light, on love, on God - - no one. It is, and I've learned to say "IT", instead of "He", IT is everywhere present and that is what I learned a little, before I came over here. At least five years of my life, I took to studying a variety of philosophies and religious beliefs, and it suddenly occurred to me that all life is truly one life. Truth is one thing. We needn't go looking for it. We need to try living it, that's all. We know it, so we must try to live it.

I have more respect for one who shares a little crust of bread with a friend, than a man who has millions and gives millions. A man with a crust of bread is giving his heart, giving a valuable thing called friendship. Money is not the root of all evil, it is the misuse of it. Evilness lies in ourselves. After one reaches a certain age, life is pretty much run dry. One is not much needed or wanted, so no one watched me as I studied other beliefs, thank the presence that was so, for it gave me a head start in coming over here.

Aud: Why don't they teach about the other side in most churches?

Sister T: Because, if full teachings were given, it would show the individual that no one can enslave him in any manner; that no one should; that one should not get down on his knees to any "God", but stand up and face this Light and be proud that he or she is part of this great creation. What a glorious wonder I am. Just physically - - think of the marvel of hands, how unutterable beautiful! There are no words to express it. And everywhere I turn in life, I see this unmentionable beauty. Have you ever looked into the heart of the most common object, a stone? I am so enchanted, I cannot speak about it without becoming emotional. Forgive me.

Aud: This is very touching.

Sister T: Life is very touching, so touching. Man is not born of evilness. Nothing is. Everything is in its place and time, and belongs there. The great Creator knew where everything should be and at what time. Today your young people are indulging in that fantastic drug, lysergic acid. They call it turning on. When one has a beautiful experience with this drug, they get trapped in it because it exposes everything as it is. The grandeur, the beauty is so very appalling to the sleeping mind, it cannot stand it. It must break under it. The Bible says that one who sees God must surely die. Yes, their ignorance dies. The Light comes and the lower consciousness is appalled by it, so turns away. Since coming here, I have seen heaven like it was never described before, the Light, the beautiful Light everywhere. The meaning of me; my place .... on Mark's mind, to keep his body in my control.

Aud: Sister, don't leave yet. You talked quite a bit about unborn children coming to you, and you were quite distressed, and you have overcome.

Sister T: I am so pleased you could recognize it in me, thank you, dear. It is very fulfilling to me to have such recognition. This world, that was to me a world of pain and suffering. I loved a young man when I was 25 years old, and I was deeply in love with him. Then I learned he was not only not a Catholic, but had no religious beliefs at all. And to marry him would be worse than to marry a Baptist. Of course, I couldn't have married him. My people were very devout Catholic, and he wouldn't marry me in my church, or in any church. So I went away from him and grew sick in my soul for his love. It was natural. It wasn't religion, it was peace of mind and heart I found in him and when I lost him. I lost peace of mind and heart. And when I found my heart again, I gave it to the church.

Aud: I always think of you as the little flower, roses. I'm not Catholic, but I have had rose essence come out of the top of my head, almost once a month and so heavy it would run down my forehead. And I have always loved you and felt you near, when this happened.

Sister T: I love you for that. I love you dearly. Your thoughts of me give me more life, gives me courage to want more life, to not run away. That's what love does for us. We feel wanted not for any physical reason, not because I am a woman and you are a man and so we have that exchange of desire not that. I do sincerely wish that I'd had some physical joys when I lived in the physical world. I do wish I had been a woman and lived the part. But my disappointments and fears of not being able to find love again, drove me into marrying Jesus and there is no colder bed partner for a woman than Jesus. His sense of purity is intolerable. I am a human. Why did I let myself be so conditioned as to not be able to accept, once rejected, the possibility of love again, male love. He who cries over spilled wine, shall never get drunk.

Aud: Do you think you will be returning to earth?

Sister T: I do not, at least now, want to. It is, even now, too painful I do not want it.

Aud: Do you recall, that before, you blamed your parents?

Sister T: I see now the foolishness of blaming someone else for our errors, our own blindness. My parents had their own sufferings, brought out of what they did not know. But I didn't see this for many years. I did blame my parents, I called them fanatics. What about myself? I was 25 years old before I had any awakening to one of the opposite sex. So why didn't I go out and grab him? Why was I so lagging, hanging back? Because my parents said no? I do not think so now, I think the old fear was on me. I was afraid to take the chance. What is a husband? Going with someone is one thing: but living with him day in and day out, is another. And I think I didn't want it really. Anyway, I think I would have brought a great deal of anxiety to this gentle soul who knew nothing about a Christian God. His sense of beauty and gentility was very great. But I was afraid I would wear him down with my great force of God.

Aud: Have you seen him?

SisterT: Not ever at all, he melted away from me like a snowdrop in the sun. Where, where where is he? If I found him now, it wouldn't be the same as I knew him on earth, so I would not recognize him.

Aud: Wouldn't he have progressed?

SisterT: Thank you sir, I think so. In remembering talks, he tried to tell me I was putting limitations on myself with my fascination of the church god. He said man is born of love, he cannot be lost, for he himself is the creator. That, at that time, was evilness, that's what I saw. I thought man was not god; man was a creation by a god who gave him love only when he felt in the mood for it. I do not wish to talk this way. I'm going to run on. The love of the Light, of God if you like that word better, use it.

Dr. Nikkioi: I am Dr. Sukuto Nikkioi. It has been a long time since I have spoken through Mark. I come at your request. I have had the time to leave some of my way of speaking, as I remembered it when I was on earth, and to become closer to Mark and learn to speak quite a little bit as he does, I used to shout, "I AM DR. SUKUTO NIKKIOI!" What is your pleasure?

Aud: A quote from Mark's book, "A great deal has been said by some of the other members of the "Inner Circle" in these writings regarding sound, and so I will not go into that particular aspect of the magical power of words when intoned repeatedly in certain octaves. I will, however, say this, if an individual knew the proper harmonical note and was capable of sounding it in one manner or another, that one would be in possession of the key to both the visible and invisible worlds. He would be able, at a moment's notice, to call into being all forms and shapes that ever existed, and to destroy or vanquish them, as well as make contact with any and all states of consciousness that ever knew physical life, and those that have not as yet done so."

Aud: This is very profound and stimulating. Would you develop that please?

Dr. N: At the time I wrote that, I knew what I was saying; but now, only God knows.

Aud: This is called a "cop out" coming up now!

Dr. N: All of us, of the Circle, do that. That's what I just learned. Well, if you know the note on a musical instrument you know how to bring it into being. When you know the proper harmonic, you can produce the proper color which that harmonic is capable of making. When you know how to make a sound, and aim that sound at a physical thing, you can shatter it. You can destroy the vibrations of which it is made up; and by proper atonement and the breathing in - you can bring an object into being, any object. You can manifest another human form, but you'd better be careful in doing this, very careful. We humans are a strange lot, even when we are only mocked-up humans. I have seen, many years ago, when I was in Ceylon, having gone there with my dear father who didn't think very much of other races of people; the Japanese, in his eyes were God's greatest gift to the earth. Have you heard that story before?

Aud: What year were you in Ceylon?

Dr. N: 1914.

Aud: Had you dropped surgical practice in Japan?

Dr. N: Well, yes, but I had to go back and drop it again.

Aud: Had you been to America then?

Dr. N: Well yes, in 1918 I came to America the first time.

Aud: What was the hospital you went to in New York? You mentioned some doctors had similar interest in spiritual healing.

Dr. N: Yes, these doctors spent time in my country and in India and some remote parts of China, and learned many secrets and healing with breath and with passes. They learned how to bring up forces in their necks and extend forces out through the mouth and create instant healing of broken bones.

Aud: In India or Africa?

Dr. N: In India, but also Africa, but done differently in Africa. There was a witch doctor in Africa. He has a stick and wouldn't tell me what kind of wood it was made of. It was very hard. He never let it into my hands.

Aud: Did the witch doctor use the stick, or the patient?

Dr. N: There was a medicine man who had been bitten by a snake and was screaming; and already his leg was turning black. And the witch doctor took the stick and ran it between his lips and I could see heavy saliva coming from his mouth. He struck the man, where the bite was, and the man screamed and got up and ran and was never sick.

Aud: About being in Ceylon with your father and calling something into being with sound.

Dr. N: Oh-yes, chanting, Four people get in a circle, holding hand and chanting words very strange to me. Then three sounds were uttered and these four would step forward and stamp their feet. It was a commanding sound. And suddenly, in the middle of the four, would appear a little being who looked crippled in the back; his body, torso, seemed so much larger than his legs, very ugly. His eyes did not rivet on anything, but moved around rather insanely and he would say, "Who called me! How dare you call me!" and he would be in a rage. Why was he sent for? "There is a sick woman in the village and there is no medicine, you can heal her. Come and help her for us and we will pray for your continuation as a helper to earth man." He would say very irrascibly, violently, "I don't give a damn for your prayers, but I will help the lady".

And so he'd go to the village, enter the room and say, "How dare you be sick! Get up out of that bed! You are a human. You have mastery, more than I, get out of that bed!" And she would jump up and walk out. And here I was spending years with potions that had little or no result on those I hoped to make well. I was greatly enraged that I should have been so fooled with drugs.

Aud: We can heal ourselves with chanting?

Dr. N: You are of a different mind, you have been caught up so long in hypnosis. I was caught up in belief in drugs, and drugs are good for some. But what started me on a search was the incredible things I would see. People coming to my office, saying they were going to die. And I would examine and call in other doctors, and examine from head to foot. And the people would say, "You're wasting your time and they did die. And the most minute examination showed no reason for them to die.

Aud: In your time, was any of this healing done in the United States?

Dr. N: Yes, but I had to really seek these people out. They were hidden they were harrassed by the law.

Aud: What are you doing now, what work?

Dr. N: Trying to find sensitive people in my own country; trying to communicate with them, ways and means of bringing peace to the East and the Far East. All of us, of the ancient world are now devoted to that. It is a deadly, deadly spot for the whole world.