Lecture by Yada di Shi'ite
Professor Luntz

Through Medium Mark Probert
November 17 1956
~ Detroit Federation of Women's Club ~

Tom Davidson: Good evening. It is certainly encouraging to see such a full house after so many cards that were sent out, because I know it will be an evening you will feel is well spent and one you will not long forget.

Mark Probert has been a transmedium for about 12 years with the assistance of his wife, Irene, and Della Delunters and I included them on our visit out West this past summer. I can assure you it was a most stimulating and interesting meeting we had with these teachers of the Inner Circle. I want to remind all of you about the next meeting Mark will be having in the city before he leaves this coming Wednesday the 21st. It will be here, downstairs in the board room at 8:15 p.m. So those of you who can make it, I am sure you will want to after experiencing this evening. So without further comment, I want to introduce Mark Probert and his wife, Irene Probert.

Mark: Good evening friends. (Clapping by audience)

Irene: I want to say that it is very wonderful to be back in Detroit and meet so many of our close friends and so many new friends. Before we go on, I want to mention about this little pamphlet, I want to put it down so I will mention it first. Some of you people have received them. They pertain to a book that was dictated to Mark by his teachers clairaudiently. For all those who do not have one of these, we will be happy to give you one. They will be here on the table.

Do all of you people hear me? (Aud.Yes) I have been told at so many of our lectures that the people that haven't had the privilege of listening to Mark's teachers before, would like very much for me to give them a brief description of how this all started, so I'll tell you.

This was all more or less a wedding present to me. A month after Mark and I married, I was awakened several nights by hearing him talk in foreign languages. I had had some experience listening to people speak foreign languages, for I had been a teacher in citizenship at one time. After this went on for a week I told him about it and he was surprised and laughed and said he wasn't even able to speak the King's English well and certainly couldn't speak all these foreign languages that I was talking about. For 3 years this went on without any explanation of what this talking was all about. Of course, I, not having had any experience in paranormal psychology or the field of paranormal, thought he was really speaking in his sleep, in his dream state.

After this 3 year period, Mark was introduced to an investigator in paranormal psychology, Dr. Meade Layne of San Diego. He told Mark that he thought he was a trainee medium and just wasn't aware of it and that he would be most happy to come over to our home and carry on some experiments. Through these experiments, in fact, the first day he came over, he had Mark sit as he is now and in a very short time, Mark said he felt as though he was losing his equilibrium, and suddenly he felt a very wonderful thrill of elation go through his body, and he went to sleep and woke up about 45 minutes later. And, believe it or not, the first individual that spoke through him, spoke perfect English! After 3 years of foreign languages this was quite a surprise to me.

As time went on, these teachers told us that our work was to be this type of thing. That is, they told us he was to talk to people and more or less give them, the teachers, the opportunity of talking to people about science and philosophy and telling of life as they see it. We had no idea that it would be anything but sitting there at home and having a few people come in once in awhile. As time progressed though, we found that we were to travel all over and it has been wonderful, believe me.

Each day that passes has been a new experience for Mark and me. The teachers do not tell us in advance what is to happen. After it is over, they would tell us this experience was to learn and they would tell us. So we are completely unaware of what our life is to be.

Mark: I just wanted to say that Dr. Layne, who is my mentor in this work, who my wife mentioned just a bit ago, did not expect or want this work to become what he called a popular thing. In other words, he didn't want me to take it out to the people and he was greatly opposed to it, until one morning about 6 o'clock he called me on the phone and said, "I had the strangest experience at 4 o'clock this morning. I was shaken awake and a voice said to me, I want you to have Mark and Irene take this work out to the people and to the different parts of the United States, and eventually they hoped to carry them all over the world". That was a bit shocking to him, as he called me at 6 in the morning to tell it to me. This work is really an amazing thing to me. I never get accustomed to it.

In doing this work, I am not trying to demonstrate survival, or necessarily what is called spirit communication, because I don't completely understand what is going on myself. Mind is a tremendous field and few of us, even the experts in psychology and psychiatry have not done more than scratch the surface of it. All I am trying to do in this work, is to let go and let my teachers, whoever or whatever they are, communicate with you here and then you must be the judge of what may or may not be happening. In other words, I'm not a spiritualist, nor am I of any other religious belief. I'm trying to the best of my ability, to let those I call my teachers bring to you what they call TRUTH, whatever that may be. YOU MUST JUDGE it for yourself. Whatever conclusion you come to, that is perfectly all right with me. I have no argument about survival after death, or communication or anything of that nature. I took a great many years, almost fifty now...

Irene: Sounds as though he is ancient doesn't it? But he isn't.

Mark: Time to me rushes on madly and I have spent many years of my life before I got into this work, wondering what life was all about. It didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason to me.

When I was a child, I had to go to church and Sunday school, because my folks were very religious. But after I reached 15 I ran away from home and roamed around the world quite a bit. Then when I was 26 I tried going back to church again to see if I had missed something. I spent several years going from one religious teaching to another and from one church to another. I finally gave up, because I couldn't find what I wanted. Whatever that may be. Maybe I, myself, don't even know, but I finally got into this work, I found something that to me was really worthwhile. I've always said that it is the only good thing I have ever done.

Irene: There is one thing about our lectures that I find, they do not coincide or compare with the majority of lectures that are given. (I was just speaking to this lady in the back. I wonder if she wouldn't like to go upstairs and perhaps get a better seat. I know there are seats up there) These lectures are carried on very informally. We don't write our lectures down or memorize them before we speak to people. I find that what I feel sincerely within me, I don't have to write it down. If I am sincere in what I am doing, I don't need anything to prompt me. We may make grammatical mistakes and interrupt each other, but it doesn't seem to make too much difference. The important thing is that the teachers are not interested in whether you believe in the phenomena. The phenomenon of Mark going into trance is not truly important. You see it every time they, the teachers, come. The important thing is whether they say something that is of use to you, so that your life will be more harmonious for you.

I notice that there are many of you people looking this way and that. It is rather difficult to see Mark up here I know, he being a little shorter than the usual person. So if you will move your chairs and be comfortable. I mean, if you want to move your chairs, move them, because when Mark's teachers come, it isn't unusual for them to lecture an hour and a half before they leave, and another one takes over very shortly thereafter. And to sit with your head crooked or your neck strained for an hour and a half, causes one to concentrate upon the body and not upon what is being said. You can't divide your thoughts and understand what the teachers are trying to put forth. So please get comfortable.

I wanted to say too that I know there are quite a number of strangers here and I wanted to say that these teachers of Mark's use me like a battery and it very often puts me to sleep. So if you catch me asleep don't think I'm bored. I'm just doing my little part and this is the instruction the teachers gave me. Mark and I are both following their instructions. It seems that I have the gift of gab and I don't feel strange toward my fellowman. I just get up and talk before anybody, without any instructions how to do it, so I guess that is why I am helping him.

Mark wants me to remind you that you are at an open forum and not here just to listen to his teachers. Now, I know that there are many of you in this group that would like to ask questions and there will be a microphone for that purpose. The teachers like to have you put your questions to them directly, so if you will just raise your hand when the time comes as indicated. They would like to hear from you, just raise your hand and David will bring the microphone to you. These teachers will answer questions on any subject except personal questions. They don't advise you when to take a vacation, how to invest your money, or anything of that nature, because that isn't their work.

Not that there are not many very good mediums that do this, but everyone has his own type of work and this isn't Mark's. I wanted to say too, that the manner in which Mark was talking a while ago pertaining to church, does not mean that we are not interested in the Christ teachings, for the teachers have talked many many times upon this. It is churchianity that Mark was referring to. We are not Atheists, as one defines atheists. We believe very strongly in the teachings of the masters. So, I don't want any of you to think that we do not believe in these things. In fact, if we didn't I'm sure that we couldn't be doing this work. I'm getting a very strong chill now and I know it is not from being cold!

Mark: When I start going into trance, my face goes through some change. I may look as though I'm having a fit but it is a very marvelous feeling. I have one teacher that calls himself, Yada di Shi'ite. Quite a name bit, it isn't a name, it's a title and it simply means the spirit life of a tribe of people called the Shi'ite Tribe. Well, according to this teacher, he claims he comes from a civilization that existed some 500,000 years ago and he says it was a tremendous civilization, highly cultured. Well, I've got to take his word for it because I can't go back and look. When he comes he starts to speak through me in his own tongue. It's called the Yu language. The civilization was called Yuga, or vast body. I had, in the earlier years of my work here, when this Yada personality started speaking through me, I had the wonderful opportunity to sit for a man by the name of Dr. Hans Von Kerber at U.S.C. He was a teacher in Modern and Ancient Languages. When I called him on the phone, he said he could give me 45 minutes of his time, as he was going away on a vacation. When we went to his home he brought a recording machine and some tapes, because I did not think I was going to go into trance and have my teacher, Yada, speak to him in person.

But as we were setting up the machine my teacher said to me clairaudiently, "I wish to speak to this man in person." So then I asked the doctor if he would permit me sufficient time to let my teacher take control and talk to him and he said that would be quite all right. It ended up by us having a 5 hour session with him. Dr. Hans Von Kerber spent 7 years as a tibetian monk. He is a man about 76 years old now. He said he was able to communicate with Yada in 4 different tongues mixed together, such as Inca, Mayan, Hundustani, and Chinese. Quite a conglomeration! But anyway, when he comes tonight, which I know he will, because he does almost always, he will first speak in his own tongue and then he will revert to English.

Are there any questions any of you would like to ask us right now?

Irene: How many of you are familiar with Mark's work? Would you raise your hands.

Mark: (Aside to Irene) Quite a few, quite a number.

Irene: I have a few more words to say. I want to say that I can interpret Yada's language. I can't tell you how this comes about, because I haven't a remembrance of this, but I have been able to do this from the very beginning of Yada speaking through Mark. Now when Yada says that he has been here in civilization 500,000 years ago, he has an awareness state of this. But we all have been here 500,000 years ago. In fact we always have been, but as I said, he can remember these things. So Yada is not telling you, that he has had a greater or longer life than yours, he is just telling you about his incarnation, because he remembers this incarnation. In fact, it was the last and only one he experienced in the physical world here. Mark is in trance now. I will tell you just a few things Yada says, but I prefer he interpret for you when he starts speaking English. If you people later would like to see these little pictures of Mark's teachers, I will be happy to show them to you.

Yada: Senas et Senahas Ena Yada di Shi'ite.

Irene: Senas is ladies and Senahas is gentlemen. He is introducing himself. Good evening, Yada.

Yada: A notchi (Speaks in his language)

Irene: Yada is thanking all of you people who have come to this casa-house, or room, being used to teach spirit life. (Aside to Yada: Yada, I will let you interpret what else you speak in your language).

Yada: Au kee (goes on speaking in Yu language). My honorable friends, it is with great pleasure that I come to speak to you this evening. There are so many things to speak about concerning life, that it is very difficult to know where to start for each one of you are a life in yourself, a world in yourself. So your world is made up of ideas and feelings that are totally different than the one sitting next to you.

Each one of you have ideas that may cause you to express yourself in a certain way. When you do and I do not comprehend your words, I must simply say, "I do not understand you, will you clarify what you are thinking." Therefore, you must do the same to me please, eh? For though it may appear to you that I am not of your world, I really am. You are not communicating with a dead person. No medium has ever communicated with a dead person. Nor has anyone else, but with life, with consciousness. Man does not understand what he is on the surface. He has a misconception of the majority of things he deals with in this physical world. He is what is called a surface observer. The work of life is to get behind the surface, to know what life is. The surface life is what the great and ancient teachers have called the world of illusion. Man lives within a dream, within a dream, within a dream.

My friends, I do not know very much. Let me now confess it. Death does not qualify us beyond what we know while we are in the physical body. Unless we have had applied learning, applied reasoning, we do not grow on any plane. Life is a study. What you have now, you will take with you. Then if you still have the capacity for learning, you will continue to learn in that state or sphere. Life is an experience. That which is called the soul is a composite of experiences.

Each and every one of us have different experiences. Then we try to compare our experiences with another and it often leads to confusion and war. That is the trouble with nations. So is it the trouble with individuals, for nations are made up of individuals. The quest of all humankind is "Do I survive the death of the physical body?" If there is no such thing as survival, then I have no right being here!

I say to you, you do survive, but I cannot prove it to you. You must prove it to yourself. You do not have to go to mediums or seance rooms to prove survival. The story of it is everywhere present. Watching the actions of what is called nature, mind, or God, if you wish, it becomes obvious. When we can settle down in our minds with this truth that I do survive, then much of our fears are washed away.

For, my friends, the majority of our fears are built upon that basic belief that "I do not carry on or may not carry on after death." We are afraid, afraid of what? Of the unknown. Since man has been on the earth he has been going and coming and communicating with himself all the time and yet today, in your modern times, the greater majority of people do not accept the idea of it, or they do, but they do not know how. They do not know how they believe.

We, my friends, do not care what you believe, not one little bit, and you should not be concerned with what another believes. But you should be, and we are, vitally concerned with how another has arrived at his conclusions about anything, let alone survival and communication. That is interesting. Not only is it interesting, but it is vital for us to know.

To simply tell me what you believe does nothing for me because I have a belief of my own that may be totally different from yours. This may cause, and often does, war between two people, for never is your belief as good as mine, as right as mine, as true and mine. "I am one of the chosen of God, you are chosen if at all, by the devil." So you see, my friends, we get no where by asking another his opinion about life.

But to sit down and talk and ask, "How did you arrive at what you believe, my friend?" This not only informs me about the nature of what is called thought, in general, but it tells me the nature, the character of this individual. It tells me where his fears lie, where his hopes and joys and his pains originate. Remember, my friends, that all is mind, all is but consciousness. We walk and have our being in the Light that is called Christness, the Light, not space and time as separate entities from consciousness. Time and space is consciousness and this consciousness is the Light, the matrix, out of which man and all form and all things have come. For all forms are but ideas created by this great mind, this great Light and then is projected and given birth to, in what is called a three-dimensional existence, in which we suffer the belief that we are somehow outside of consciousness, in another state called "matter". No, this is an illusionary projection of the consciousness. The three-dimensional body, in trying to measure its outer existence, measures it with what is called the senses and these senses are highly circumscribed.

Much contention exist among the people today, about what is called flying saucers, reincarnation, hypnosis. Popular subjects heh? But unless we discuss these subjects in love, in peace and joy with another, without hate, we are going to have wars. How do we think my friends? This is important.

We of the Circle have often said we do not return to the earth to speak through this man to tell you anything, to teach you anything. We have come only with the hope that what we say may cause you to do some serious thinking.

THINKING. Thinking, my friends, is an art. Almost a lost art in your world because you have become mechanical in your doing. You are mechanical in your thinking. Of course, you are advanced in mechanics because that is where your thoughts are. Many temples have been built in your time that are to teach you of what is called life, not only in the here and now, but in the alleged hereafter. There is no hereafter; there is only here now. If you are not here not, you will not be hereafter. Man, if he could, ought to release himself from his many guilt complexes and feelings of shame and the desire to punish himself.

My friends, the world is burdened with a great masochistic desire for self-punishment. "Oh, I did wrong. I wonder if God will forgive me?" "I wonder?" What kind of God is he? Should I stop living because I am afraid of making mistakes. Mistake is another word for sinning. But the word sin, what you call the connotation on that word, petrifies the soul and disturbs the ego to such an extent, that it is afraid to express itself.

Each one of us coming into the physical world, we are conditioned by our environment, conditioned by those who came before us. Conditioned is another word for being hypnotized. Do you want to come out of your hypnotic state? Then think for yourself. Take no one's word for that which you bare seeking to know. But listen, listen everywhere you go with a great deal of respect and love for all that you are listening to, because remember, you are not seeking to analyze a personality, you are seeking to know truth. "The world is full of sound and fury", as one of your great poets once said in the past, "Of sound and fury signifying nothing." From the womb to the tomb, nothing but sound and fury.

Is this what man wants? Is it what he is looking for? I think not. He is looking to recognize himself as the Creator of all. But he has become afraid, afraid to look into the eyes of his Creator, THE ETERNAL MIND. "You are a sinner." "Oh, then I hide." If God, an external being, created you and me, this God is perfection itself. If it is perfection itself, it can have no judgment about anything that is not perfect. If there are any thoughts that are negative in his creation, these thoughts are created by those in the creation, not by him. Him sounds like a male gender. Why not have a female god? She. There would be more men going to heaven today if that were so! LAUGHTER How many men want to go and listen to what another man thinks or believes or says, whether he is God, devil, or next door neighbor? Very few. So it is not male, it is not a sex being, it is "IT", the LIGHT, the Eternal Light that knows nothing about evilness. It knows only balance, because that is what it is, balance, perfection.

Now, if I know this, my life becomes a great joy, I am not afraid to lie down and go to sleep, completely relaxed. Why am I relaxed? Because I know that I have my being in perfection. Nothing unbalanced, negative can happen to me. If I die, which is what most of us dread, if I die in my sleep, I know that I shall be just as much alive as I was before. For alive means conscious. This thing (body) is not alive, the life in it is conscious life from the being dwelling therein. Every cell of your body is filled with your consciousness. Every minute particle of the body contains a substance called your consciousness. This is why it is possible for the mind to heal the body of any kind of ailment. But why do we not heal then? Because we are being hypnotized in the opposite direction, so that we cannot believe, we have no belief. We cannot incorporate this belief in the so-called unconscious, which should be the all-conscious self, we cannot incorporate it.

Lips speak much. We give lip service to what is called the Light or God, but we do not seem to be able to demonstrate God or the Light. Our lips are not telling the truth, because it is not incorporated in the mind. That is all. Day by day practice putting into the consciousness the truth, not the belief, the truth that you, mind, control your body. You may not have any what are called miraculous cures, miraculous happenings or phenomenal experiences right away, but if you keep your eyes open, keep your awareness alert, you will see little things taking place.

For instance, you will find yourself becoming less irritable, meaning your ego is not so edgy as it used to be. Your ego is beginning to withdraw and give the consciousness a chance to do the living. If someone speaks in a derogatory way about you, you no longer pay any attention. If they want to speak in a derogatory way about you, you no longer pay any attention. If they want to speak this way, good, what do you care? Do you believe what they are saying to be true? You must if you become irritated about it. If you know it is not true, why the irritation, why the argument? "Oh, they may ruin my reputation. Do you have one? (Laughter) If you think you do, get rid of it quickly!

What you want is conscious awareness of your own being, not a reputation. For once you have this, you have life in your hands, in your heart, in your mind. You will no longer fear what anyone says, what anyone does, for you will know that you have withdrawn yourself from the storm outside. You will realize that life is perfection. You will not long to go out into the storm. You will let it rage, or to put it simpler, perhaps, you will stand and watch the parade of life go by without getting into the shuffle of it. You will know what life is. You will no longer need to go to a temple, for you will find the greatest temple right here (within) the living temple of the living God. You will not be concerned about whether you lived yesterday or 10,000 years ago, or whether you will live in some future time. You will see the logic of living now - now!

Oh, you may say, "If I could only know what I did in a past life, I could use it as a rule to do better now, in this one." Ha, ha, you won't. If you do not have emotional control within yourself, you will continue to do as those emotions demand you to do, whether you were a king, queen or a bum in the last life. Most of us, my friends, because of this ego, this emotional self, if we believe in what is called a former life, we were nothing less than kings, queens, princes and princesses and all the great that ever were.

How many of you would like to confess that you were Hitler? Not many. We could say that the man Hitler, or Schickelgruber - that is a way of making him look very bad isn't it? Hitler is a pretty nice name, but Schickelgruber is a sarcastic name. It is strange what names can do for you. But we could say this man called Hitler in this life was perhaps Alexander the Great in some past life, or Napoleon or even the more heinous Genghis Khan. Now there was a man of great personality and great desires to master the world. The question is, did he master himself? But irrespective of whether he did or not, he played the part that he came to play and so did Hitler, Alexander the Great, Napoleon and all the so- called dictators or conquerors that ever lived. Each and every one of us are doing now what we have come to do. This may seem in some ways illogical heh?

I have had many people come to me and say, "I do not like what I am doing." I say, "Why?" They say, "It isn't of any importance." I know we feel insecure if we do not feel important. The personality, the ego, demands a sense of importance, of being wanted, of being respected, of being looked up to.

I do not want to be looked up to, I want to be looked at. For when you are in a position whereby you are looking up at me, it causes me to feel superior to you. That is why a judge's bench is elevated, so that the one that comes before him can feel his superiority. Let us come down from the high places and look at and walk with on another, huh?

REBIRTH. Did I live before? Before when? Before yesterday or the day before. Yes, I did. I have lived eternally. That sounds big, heh? I'm going to add one little piece to that, forever and a day. That's a long time. I, CONSCIOUSNESS, live forever. I PERSONALITY, am a composition of experiences. That is my personality, my soul, my spirit, my mind. Whatever you like to call it, that is what I am and I act and react these experiences. Perhaps I am not aware that I have had such experiences in what is called "before". Yet I will act out such experiences without having any awareness of them. My consciousness will urge my body self, or the "puppet" on the strings, it will urge it to move in this or that direction; to do this or that thing. And I will say to myself, "Why did I do that? Isn't that strange."

There are many great minds in your world today that could have brought over their greatness from another experience on the earth, but they have no memory of it as such. But they have urges, unconscious urges, to act in these ways. The so-called genius in music or in any of the arts, one may say if they wish, that this one is a reincarnation of another musical genius of some past age. Perhaps some of your scientists would say it is not a remembering of a former life, it is a genetic memory. His great, great, great grandfather (almost next to Adam, we will go back that far) next to Adam was a musical genius.

Now, perhaps he was accepted in his time or perhaps he was not. Perhaps the people of those times thought his music to be so far advanced that they did not like it at all. They considered it bad music so they treated him badly on account of it. Now, we may say, this musical desire or desire to express his musical soul was frustrated. But he sowed the feelings in his genetic body and then many generations passed and these genes, what you call genes and chromosomes, that build the cellular body, were passed down generation after generation with little touches of music or perhaps no conscious awareness of music at all. But still the genes were carrying the pattern, the memory, to be staged to your time, to your world. Then here he comes in all his glory again. But he is not his great, great, great grandfather - he is himself. There are so many things my friends, to think about, to be concerned with. Reincarnation has so many ramifications and some of them so subtle, that if we who are true seekers are going to make any sense of it at all, we must go into them.

This means, that you are going to have to look into the opposite belief - what is called the contrary. But few of us want to do this. We get caught up in a belief and we will not look at the opposite side of it. "There is only one side and that side is my side and I don't want to listen to any other." I have known people to get sick when you tell them your beliefs. Sick! I have seen them react violently although you, in telling them, may have had the best of intentions. I have watched this man tell a lady (the lady was a very religious lady. I will not say what her religious beliefs were, I will just say she was very religious, very devout) he said to her. "Do you know that we survive death and that we do not go to heaven or to hell, except the kind that we make when we are here on earth? And that it is possible to communicate with those who go beyond the veil?" I watched the lady's blood pressure go up. I saw the nervous reaction pulsating in her throat. Yes, I saw the blood reach the brain and swell the arteries and produce a throbbing headache. You see what you can do with your beliefs? Nice, heh? And see what happens to us, my friends, when we are wrapped up in our little personal beliefs about things.

Let us, let the door down, I am ready to listen to anything. If you can prove to me that I am false, that my thoughts, my ideas are false, I will be very happy, because it will make me have more understanding of life. How can you prove anything to me if I will not listen to you; if I project a headache within myself to keep from listening?

Many people try to give love to others because they have been so frustrated from love, they suspect them of everything else but giving them love. So you are going to lead another's life for him? You are going to tell him how to think? Even your own children, my friends, you can only condition them so far, because remember while you are conditioning them in your home, in the safety of the home, they are also getting conditioned outside the home. They hear things that are contrary to what you have been teaching them. Then they come back and say to you, "What about this?" "You didn't tell me this was the case, you said it was this way. My priest, my clergyman, rabbi said it is this other way, also my school teacher, my friend. What is this?" So what can you do? Well, you can and very often do get angry. Angry to tell that priest or clergyman something for telling your child this. "I am going to go and tell the parents of your playmate that you cannot play with him any longer because he was a naughty little fellow."

What are we trying to do, stop our children from learning? My friends, let us sit down with this one, our child, our flesh and blood, and say to him, "You are capable of thinking, you have a mind of your own. I have told you certain things that will, in my belief, help you to live a better life. All right, now there are people who will tell you differently. All right, we will put these two stories together and you can see for yourself which is the best way. Not necessarily the right way, but the best way and the best way always is the right way. We will see, look at it."

Do we doubt the mentality of our children? Are we raising morons? Don't think, let me - your mother or father - think for you. Now this is all right up to a certain point. But even so, the child must be taught from the time he is a baby to think for himself. If you do not do this you will continue to have what you are disturbed about in your world today, called delinquent children.

My friends, I go back for a moment to what I spoke about earlier, to what is called re-birth. Many people believe that we believe in reincarnation. They just make the statement that the Inner Circle of the man named Mark Probert believes in reincarnation. I believe in life. But how do I believe in life or reincarnation? Nobody seems to ask me that. Let us see for a moment what I am talking about and what we think about reincarnation. Let us take what you call a square room, perhaps 30 feet square. We divide this room into other rooms. We come to the belief that we, in walking in that square are moving from room to room to what is called the bed chamber, kitchen, the living room (Sometimes you call it the front room or parlor, what is it, heh?) I am very confused by some of these words. Yet have you gone anyplace? You are still in that 30 foot room or square, or space.

But because you have put up partitions dividing it, you think that there is a separation and that you are going from the living room to a totally different space called the bed chamber, kitchen or whatever. When you return to what is called the living room, after going through all those so-called other rooms, you may say it is a kind of rebirth, but actually, you consciousness, neither came nor went. You are. When we get over many of our other illusionary conditions or states of awareness, we will slowly come to realize this fact, that "I AM" I am not going to be, nor was I. I AM, and am forever, if I need to add that word. But we suffer the hypnotic belief of time and space and a something called matter - 3D condition.

It is said that matter moves in space. This gives the illusion of what is called time, motion time. Do not think that you are going to suddenly realize the fabrication of all this, but you may slowly understand certain things that will relieve you of set beliefs about anything. Do not set your mind. If you believe that perhaps someone called you Cleopatra in a former life - what does it do for you now? The belief will be good only if it causes you to be a better person, to be a kinder person, to have more understanding. Many people take the opposite attitude. They say, "If I was a thief in my last life, I cannot help thieving now." This is a good release from responsibility.

Many of us take this attitude to God and the devil, and as I said a little earlier (words missing here) our next door neighbor. God designed that I steal, God designed that my child is taken from me in this life, my beloved child, my flesh and blood, one that I loved like my own life. God did it. I cannot judge why he did it, he just did it. Why should he do it? Why should he take your beloved child that is totally innocent of any wrong and leave murderers and other hateful beings live? Does this make logic to you my friends? Or we say, "The devil suggested that I do this. I could not resist it. The devil did it. If he had only not been here, I wouldn't have done it." If we cannot get by with this, we put the blame on someone more concrete, our neighbor. He suggested that I do this. But however it is, I am innocent. I am always innocent. We look to cast responsibility upon everybody but ourselves.

That is why every religion has created a crucified savior to take on his shoulders our indifference to life. If you believe that one died for you, I do not care whether it was on the cross or stoned to death, or hung, but if you believe that this is so, why do you not act that way and do everything in your power to make your life a more beautiful one, a more understanding one? When I listen to your priests, your clergymen in your many many temples and I watch the people as they come and go, very few change. They come into the temple, listen to the talk, and go out, go home and go back to fighting and hating among themselves. Little change has become evident.

If you tell them this, because they do not realize it themselves, they become resentful. They will say, "After all, I am only a human being." Only a human being? My friends, a human being is a divine state, is an intelligent state. We have to earn that lofty title, "human being". We are not born with it. We have to be trained to live sanely in an insane world. Now while I am saying insane world, the world itself is not insane, but we human beings, due to our unhappy conditioning have become insane.

I hear in your world that your medical men have produced a condition so good that the more virulent diseases that used to wipe out whole populations, do not come to your world any more. But they admit, at the same time, that mental disturbances are growing in leaps and bounds. We have suggested that, because your psychopathic hospitals are packed to capacity now, we have a way of changing this condition, make it a little better, by having a rotation system. (Laughter). Much better easier to handle for it would make little difference to let those that are in now, out, and those that are out, in! (Laughter). INSANITY is certainly not always something that is obvious. In fact, it seldom is.

I look at another and I judge his sanity by what he does in comparison to what I do, and most always I judge him insane. Not too long ago, I was speaking through this man in a city in California. The kind man that had gotten the group together, what those people here call a private group, private meeting, meaning not many people - that is all - this man invited some of the men from the University, men called psychologists and psychiatrists. Several of them came. One in particular came and stood with his coat and hat, uneasy for a few minutes and then he went home. Then later, he said to this man, "I have seen the same kind of what is called odd, in some of my mental institutions." Good! Then why keep them in there?

We have no objections to this man's thoughts, my friends. If he thinks this way, what does it do to me? Does it change me? It may upset this man through whom I speak, but it disturbs me not one little bit, for I know what I am. I know. And when we know we have no fear. We walk in Light and listen to all things and love all things and all people. Think of the release from tension, from anxiety.

How many people want to live your life for you, heh? Quite a few. But how many will die for you? Oh no. "You are a nice person. I tried to help you, to show you the proper way to live (which is really my way) but to die for you? No, I 'm afraid that is too much."

My friends, LIFE IS A GREAT RESPONSIBILITY UPON THE INDIVIDUAL. Let us try to accept these responsibilities, to go with them, to not be afraid to make mistakes. Because mistakes are the first thing we make anyway. But let us be able to recognize this fact, that we are capable of making mistakes. I know I make mistakes, yes it would be strange if I didn't. I would not belong in the human world. I would be with the angels. Only angels do not make mistakes. And even they, when nobody is looking, do occasionally. (Laughter). But you see, they cannot afford to admit it! It would throw them out of heaven immediately. You want to go to heaven? It is very nice, but you will not have much fun there!

I want to listen please to some of your thoughts. You may object to anything I have said if you wish, but in your objecting I want you to tell me why you object. And please, my friends, I want to ask you this: if you do have anything to say, either positive or negative, say it to me now. Don't wait until you go out of here and say, "Oh, I could have told that one something." Say it to me now. This is the way I learn you see. Yes, please what?

Irene: I wanted to tell you, Yada, that David will be taking the microphone around among the people to ask questions, for as you know, the hall is a little large. We have a Dr. Donalds here who has put forth a question. So if you will take the mic to the doctor... (Yada, David is going to turn the tape over before he takes the microphone into the audience.)

Yada: And so, you can see my friends, where each one of you, as I said, that we are... tape ends.

Irene: Where is the doctor? There he is...

Dr. The question is: many years ago, I was a close friend of Bishop Gallagher and he made the statement that according to the confessions of the Catholic Church they figured there were about 3 million abortions annually in the U.S. They figure probably about 200,000 traffic deaths annually in the U.S. (These figures don't seem correct) So they kill 10 million a year in wars and 3 million in abortions. Now since all there is to life is a change in consciousness, is there any special harm in abortions, traffic deaths or war deaths? Is there any special harm in death as death?

Yada: My friend and doctor, I do not mean to be facetious, but when you are standing in my position, when you come to this side of the veil, you will not naturally see anything wrong in that, no matter how it is done. You see, I am one of the alleged dead. Now if I was in your world, I wouldn't see anything wrong with life, would I? You see what is happening? When you come here you will not see anything wrong with death. Death is only another side of life. The word death actually means ignorance. It does not mean dissolution of the physical structure, nor departure of the consciousness from same. However, you are living in a world in which you have thoughts on what is called morals and ethics. You believe in something called right and wrong and you must believe in them if your world is going to be a halfway sane place to live in.

Now life itself does not tell us how to act or when. It says LIVE. That is all life says. But in our various environments we create moral and ethical laws and we must live by them for it is through these things that tell us what to do and when to do it.

ABORTIONS. Does abortion speak only of abortion? No, it tells - how many you say there are a year? (Dr.: about 3 million) I think so - it tells me something else. Man's tremendous drive to create - to create and recreate himself. This is called the biological urge. This biological urge says nothing about love, it simply says produce. And if we, man, are not conditioned to think in a balanced way, we obey that command "produce" automatically. It is a hypnotic command. We do not actually know what urges us into the act of reproduction. It is simply a blind rage with most of us.

But, my friends, there is something more and greater to what is called the biological urge, or sex. Much greater than the simple reproduction, or the momentary satisfaction which brings release from so much tension that we work under in our daily living. What else is behind it? The great desire to create music, literature, and all the various fine arts. Back of it lies the great and compelling desire to be loved, to be wanted. But why so many abortions? Most because man has been taught by his religions that the sex act is evil, is wrong.

AT THE SAME TIME he is taught by the same religions to produce himself, as often as he can, because God will love him better. The more children you have the greater love God will have for you, which means you will have a special place in heaven. Now this may be delightful to poor people, because they have little else to do anyway. (Laughter). And if they have been conditioned into believing this, you see what it leads to my friends? More poverty than before. More poverty means more slaves for the alleged authorities about God and life hereafter, more slaves.

Let those of us that reason, when we set out with the sex desire rising in us; what are we going to do with it? Reproduce ourselves or use it for a beautiful painting, a creative work in writing, or a masterpiece in art? What are we going to use it for? I say to you only this - to raise the kundalini, or what is called "to draw the sword", to use it - what are you going to raise it for?

KUNDALINI is cosmic energy that is centered in your body. The "sword" is also called the "sword of fire." What are you going to use it for? This urge to paint, this urge to write, is the sex urge. But we do not see it as such and so we paint freely, make music freely, because we have no feelings of guilt about it. But when it comes to reproduction, or the actual co-habitation, then we are frustrated. We wonder, is it all right? Is is wrong? Will God love me after it? Because, I'm going to do it anyway. (Laughter). But with doing it anyway with these kind of inner conflicts, we bring great mental strain upon ourselves which acts upon the physical body and brings on diseases, perhaps starting as a nervous disorder working slowly into what is called the endocrine glands and causing chemical changes there that will sooner or later bring on an actual organic disease.

I do not say anything is wrong, 300,000 or 3 million, 500 million abortions, murdering people, your own kind in the streets with your charging chariots, does not change my feelings. I do not care, go ahead. You should care, you are living in this world of yours. If you truly love life, it means you love your fellowman, not only yourself. It is not only a fear of dying to love life, because if you love life, you will never fear to die, but you will treat life with great care, great delicacy, great love. You will act it out. You will demonstrate this fact by being careful, cautious, using forethought instead of hindthought in what you do.

WARS. Wars are created to make money, to expand a nation. Today your country has come to the realization that wars bring nothing but hate and more war. You have a few people in your government that seek war, that would like it, that hope to make money from it. But the true understanders, the true top people of your nation KNOW that violence leads to nothing but violence. The constitution that was drawn up many years ago in your country, know that war leads to nothing but war. Now all nations know that another war will be the final war. Why? Not because no one will want war any more, but because there will be nobody to war with. Another war, my friends, will completely devastate your world, wherein there will be no living thing, not individuals, but no living thing on your earth, not even a blade of grass! It will be 500,000 years before you will have even approached the kind of civilization you have now - IF YOU HAVE ANOTHER WAR.

You may say that sounds contradictory - if there is no living thing left on the earth, how can there be another life, another civilization, another human being and all that. Where do you think this came from? Nothing? Man has been completely destroyed from the earth 5 different times in the past. But life is persistent. It will be again, in spite of everything emotional man does. Life has persisted through all the many violent states that have struck your earth and there have been some very devastating conditions. Man has been frozen to death, burned to death, electrified, blown off the earth - ha, ha, shaken down. Oh yes, but when everything quiets down again, here he comes.

Today your scientists are striving for some kind of chemical that will kill, wipe out certain kinds of pests - what you call bugs, and they have done fairly well with some of these drugs, chemical substances. They have killed some of these little creatures for a whole year at a time. Yes, but at the end of the year, here come these beings again and in fact with better bodies than they had before. They are now prepared to take care of any drug that is made. What is the substance you have sometimes used, very strong in the beginning, called D.D.T.? (Aud: Yes, that's right.) When this was used, there was some kind of a fruit fly that you were making tests on. All right, they are all gone now. We have done it at last. Eureka, we win! But here they come again and this time, they drink up all the D.D.T.; all the powdered D.D.T. anything D.D.T. and enjoy it. (Laughter). The germs that were once so violent, that killed what you called pests, they are not dead, they are not gone; they are still here. They are just waiting for man to make a little slip and you will have another plague - like England and most of Europe in past centuries.

Speaking of wars, I think it is said in your world today that your machines of the streets are killing more people annually than wars. Is that not so? But we may then say machines are evil and you should dispense with them. Take all your chariots off the streets, dispense with them, because they are a menace to society, to life and to limb, I think is your expression. Go ahead, do it. But let me tell you, because you are of the creative mind, you will create something equally destructive. You cannot say destroy the atom bomb, do not use atomic power, put it away, hide it under something. Man tried that when the machines first began moving around in the streets - cars is the word - when the cars first came in the streets, the priest-crowd, the clergy, the witch doctors went to the authorities and said, oh, oh, remove them. Man was not made to move around so fast in space. But they are still here.

Irene: All these people now use them, the priests and clergyman.

Yada: They use them now, heh?

Irene: Yes, very much so.

Yada: Then came what you call phone - telephone.

Irene: Yes, telephone.

Yada: This was also an instrument of the devil. Man was not meant to speak and be heard so many miles from himself. Everything that man creates is evil until those in authority see the usefulness of it, and then they use it more than anybody else.

Irene: You have mentioned several things that are detrimental. Can you tell us some things that you see that are good the creative mind has made for man?

Yada: Yes, the atomic bomb, the hydrogen bomb, your motor cars, abortion, everything else. It is all good. It is man's attitude that makes things evil, not the things themselves. My friends, do you love life? Then live it and everything else that goes with it. Examine everything, look under everything, do not be afraid of anything and then you will be living.

Man builds conflicts within himself, not because he wants to, but because he has been conditioned. If this is true, then we, man, each one of us can learn to de-hypnotized ourselves. But the first thing we must learn to do is not be afraid. How can we not be afraid, because deep within us we have already been hypnotized to be afraid. Perhaps there are some teachers that you go to and talk with, and have them go back in your early childhood. Some of these teachers are called psychiatrists and psychologists and believe it or not, my friends, there are some that are good! There are some that know what they are doing; there are some that are sane. (Laughter). Yes, and try to get them to help you. I know some of your thoughts are but what an expense. Quite so, but everything is worth only what you believe it to be and if you think your life is worth only a little bit, then that is all you will get out of it. A teacher is worthy, and this is a trite saying, of his hire. What do you want to know? Try to find someone that has had the experience of teaching along those lines to help you.

A moment please, I wish to talk to my teacher, Kethra... My friends, I am going to withdraw. If we have an instrument of any kind, whether it is another human body, or whatever it is, if we have an instrument that is useful to us, let us love it and demonstrate this love by taking care of it, to see that it is not misused. I am going to withdraw for I feel a condition coming into this man which is due to diabetes. Please for a little while, then I will come back and talk with you, if you wish to talk to me. There are many things to talk about. If you want to have an argument with me, I would love to have an argument. I love it. It makes me feel very good inside, excited, important. It causes me to believe that I know something, but truthfully, honestly, I confess I know nothing. But if I am coming to you as a teacher, I shouldn't make such a statement, heh? No. You do not want to talk to someone who doesn't know anything. So I must believe that I do and I must lead you to believe that I do. But only by your questioning will you be able to prove this. For a moment I leave you.

* * * * * * *

Irene: Dr. Donalds was just telling us that there are many people in the audience that would like to have us come more often. Is this true? (Much clapping by audience) This gives me what I call "duck bumps". Truly we would like to come too and if you would cooperate with Mrs. Della Ann Hunly, who, of course, has arranged this lecture, we will come here just as often as you people would like to have us. I know you people realize it takes a large group to support us coming here, so if each one of you would kindly help by bringing one more or something of that sort, then it would relieve her of a lot of pressure. We will come once a month, we don't care, we have to go somewhere.

Mark: We surely appreciate your attendance here tonight and also your very kind demonstration of appreciation of what we are trying to do. It may be rather vague to some of you just exactly what we are doing.

I don't know exactly how to tell you what I am doing. I started in this work, as my wife said, in my sleep, and I have stayed asleep in it ever since.

Irene: I don't know whether we really know what we are doing, even when we consider ourselves to be consciously aware - you know!

Mark: Well, everyone has a particular interest in something and if the individual enjoys what he is doing, then that is more than half the battle of this life. And I've found since we have been in this work, that few of us are doing what we want to do. My teachers have told me in the past that if I had been stymied in my desire to do this, if I had been blocked for instance, if I had had the kind of wife that would have rebelled against it, or if she had during my hours of talking at night in my sleep, had jumped up and run out and called the nearest policeman and the nearest paddy wagon, this work would have ended right there. But somehow, whether it was out of curiosity with her or not, I cannot say, but I do know she pursued her sincere will to know what exactly was going on and her desire to further this work later on when she found out what it was, has made this work possible. Then, too, many of you here that have been taking my work in the past years through writing and things like that, it is through your efforts and thoughts on the matter that has kept me going. And your applause here tonight, I surely appreciate. Without it, well, I would go back stage and get my hat and go home real quick like. I certainly thank you for it.

Irene: I suppose I should take my curtsy, but you know I once tried to thank Yada for allowing me to be with Mark, to work with him, and he said that none of us have anything we don't earn. So whatever I did to earn the privilege of working in this work with Mark, I'm grateful for. However, I would like to rephrase that a little bit and say that this isn't work. I find that whatever we enjoy doing isn't work, so I haven't been working for 12 years or more. I feel you people appreciate what I am trying to say and I too want to say that if it were not for the people in the audience who appreciated what these teachers are trying to do, Mark and I wouldn't have the pleasure of being here or working with anyone for that matter. So if you would, as I said before, let   Dell know, I'm sure all of you have her address, we would be most happy to come back. We'll set a date and perhaps come back here before Christmas. Do you think that would be too soon?

Aud: No. (Applause)

Irene: You know, my jabbering doesn't keep the teachers from coming. It helps them, because it prevents you from more or less concentrating your thoughts upon them. So I just warble away until they make their presence known, then I keep quiet. Don't forget to ask questions. I don't know who is coming. We never know, except for the last several months Yada has been coming first. I don't know until the person comes just who it is. Did all of you have a chance to look at these pictures?

About 4 years ago Mark was in our living room by himself, about 9 o'clock in the evening writing a letter, when suddenly 5 of his teachers presented themselves to him. He was not aware that he had this ability to see people and it just about frightened him to death. He jumped up and tried to get out of the living room and hit his shin on the chair that he had overturned. Finally Prof. Luntz, who is one of the teachers, called him, come back here, we are just some of your teachers and because of your ability to paint we would like very much to show ourselves to you occasionally and have you paint us in color. So, as time went on this is what happened. Mark has, as I have said before, 16 members in his Inner Circle, but he has only completed 6 pictures. He has 2 more at home, but he hasn't had them photographed. These pictures are 18x22" originals, and they are very beautiful, but very fragile, so we decided the best thing to do was to have them photographed and take little copies along with us. We expect to have these for sale soon. Now one of Mark's teachers is here, I believe it is Prof. Alfred Luntz.

Prof. L: You are quite right, my dear.

Irene: Thank you, dear.

Prof. L.: Ladies and gentlemen, I am Prof. Luntz. It is a pleasure for me to be here with you. It is one of the first opportunities I've had to be on the stage.

Irene: Yes, dear, I think this is wonderful, don't you?

Prof. L.: Yes.

Irene: I don't think the people have to sort of stretch their necks like they do in some of the places. I think this is a wonderful thing. However, I wanted to mention to them that many times we have said that because we are upon a platform a little higher than they are, that doesn't mean that we are more aware than they are, does it?

Prof. L.: No, not by any means, my dear. You may call me a fugitive from heaven. (Laughter). I'm a former clergyman in the High Episcopal Church of England. Not the Low Episcopal Church, the High. (Laughter). By all rights, I should not be here, I should be in heaven, but when I popped over here in 1893, I was simply a name and the closest I ever was to heaven, was in finding myself in my own bed chamber. That should be heaven enough for any man, comfortable, homey. I could see my 2 daughters and my very, very charming wife, if I may say so, and my family physician and my friends, but I had no way of reaching them. As far as they were concerned, my friends, I was in heaven and they were weeping about it! That was nice. If they believed I was in heaven in the care of God, what were they crying about? Certainly they were not weeping over the idea that they wouldn't be seeing very much longer that worn out, moth-eaten overcoat on the bed, called Alfred Luntz. And I had taught them through the years, for some 50 years that I was a clergyman, that man, when he passes from the earth life is in the hands of God.

Well, where was he when he was on earth if not in the hands of God? Do we have to wait to die before God reaches out and snatches us from the earth? I learned much upon coming here, but I was rather a peculiar condition for several years after my passing. By that I mean to say, I had no contact with anyone on earth and no one in the astral world. I was completely cut off from both sides, standing in the middle as it were. I have spoken to many about this situation since I have been using this man's body. Few comprehend it, few know what it means or what it might mean to be so cut off. I had a lesson to learn and I had to have time to learn it in, time to think about it. But no one stays lost for very long, not really. All of us are in the care of the Light, or God, and as we learn our lessons we draw closer to the Light. We get to know the true nature of ourselves and our fears are dissipated.

I was listening to my colleague, Yada, and I wonder if I could get some questions from you this evening as he did. I think he had a few, yes?

Irene: Yes he did, Professor, he had one question. Does anyone have a question to ask?

Lady: Could Mr. Probert explain precognition please?

Prof. L.: Well, my dear, I do not know what Mr. Probert may do, but I know what I will do and so I will try to explain some of the recognition of precognition, all right?

Irene: Yes, dear, she said...

Prof. L.: How do we become aware of anything? Either that which is now before us, or that which lies at a great distance from us in time and space? Through a something called the senses. Now the question is am I something called consciousness locked up in the physical head? Is my sense of awareness something that is limited only to my brain, or the actions and reactions of the chemistry of the brain? I think not! My body and I speak at the moment of the physical self, is simply a unit of energy. It is a field, an energy field. The nervous system therefore must also be a part of this energy field, a very sensitive energy field. This energy field is capable of extending its sense of awareness. Am I clear? This energy field is capable of extending its sense of awareness.

Everything is an energy field if we are speaking of form. That is its basic nature more or less, a sensitive energy field which has the characteristic of expanding and contracting. In this instance, the human form, the human form as a whole, has that characteristic of being able to extend itself in what is called awareness. Because nothing takes place in time as an external entity, or space as such. Our body is a consciousness, a consciousness field, I as such can become aware of not only what is taking place here before me, but what may be taking place at a vast distance from me, for actually nothing is at a distance from me.

We suffer the illusion, the peculiar, yes peculiar, illusion that we are confined in its sense of awareness. This leads us to the belief that something is over there and that I must go over there to get it, to get in contact with it. This is not the true picture at all. In what is called telepathy, it is thought that there is some form of energy coming from the brain, from one brain to another brain. Well, this apparently is not so. I think and in thinking I create a little mark, or a vibration, in the hereness before me. That vibration sets up, should I say, a vaster vibration. Now it disturbs the whole field called space and time, because, as I said, space and time is consciousness. It disturbs it, the entire field, and causes an effect upon everything.

Every little grain of sand that is disturbed will disturb all other grains of sand in one manner or another throughout the world. This should give us some picture of how closely all things are related. I see an event to take place 20 years from now. Oh, you can't do it. That licks me right then, because it cuts off my desire to express myself in that way. Without desire nothing is accomplished. We will take note I think, most of us who have studied the phenomena of precognition, telepathy, clairvoyance and clairaudience and many other forms of what is called psychic phenomena, or paraphenomena, you will note that they are all tied up together - seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting.

In hypnotizing another individual, if you, the hypnotizer have some form of chemical substance, perhaps salt, vinegar or something, I do not care, and you taste it and you ask the one hypnotized what it is, he cannot only tell you what you are tasting but he is tasting it also. He can tell you the taste of it and demonstrate it by saliva action in the mouth. Yes, does the hypnotizer have to go over and give that one some of the substance that he is tasting so that it will come in contact with the taste buds? Perhaps that one is only across the room, but he may be miles away also.

We may ask ourselves, what is the nature of taste? Where does taste lie, the sense of taste lie? In the taste buds? Have you ever tried to eat something when you have a cold and you can't breathe very well? How does it taste? Not very good heh? Tasting, while you are putting things in your mouth, is connected with the ability to smell. However, the taste buds do not taste. Does the property of taste lie in the food you are eating, the kind of food you are eating? I do not think so, I think tasting, hearing, smelling, seeing is a memory pattern of the psyche, a belief and idea perhaps gathered out of many experiences with the matter world, but it is also tied up with the nature of one's consciousness, the personality. I see something happening 20 years from now. How do I see it? I do not see it extended in space and time, I see it in consciousness.

My friends, it is very difficult to know how to put these things in words so that we can all comprehend it in the same manner. A mother says, I feel that something has happened to my child. Perhaps the child is many miles away and it is proven later that what happened to the child was exactly as she sensed it, as she felt it. She didn't see anything at all perhaps. She simply had a feeling. So what is the nature of feeling? It is a condition of the consciousness, an excessive, sensitized condition. Especially is this likely to take place between one that loves, for where love is the sensitivity is far greater. There is a kinship in blood, an actual vibration flows through the blood of two individuals that are either related by blood, or tied by what is called love.

Blood is still more or less a mystery to many. Today your medical world performs blood transfusions on certain individuals who have certain ailments and it has proven, if I may use this expression, a god-send, for it has brought healing and health and life to many that were losing these things. However, there is a sensitivity here when blood is transferred from one to another that may later cause the one that receives this blood to be sensitive to the hurts, the pains, as well as the joys of the one from which he got blood.

VIBRATION - few of us understand the laws of vibration. If I can't take the blood and examine it under test conditions and find vibrations there, I can't understand it. Many people have said... what, my dear (to Irene)

Irene: I wonder, when it is apropos, if you will explain to the people here, well you haven't a true comprehension of just what is taking place here. They asked me if Mark could say so and so. So would you please try to give them a true picture of just what is going on.

Prof. L.: Quite so, quite so. Yet again, I must ask you, what is consciousness? What is the nature of a personality? You sitting there, most of you may feel, if you do not directly believe, that you and I and the lady here and your mate next to yo, are cut off from one another, that you are different. Truthfully, my friends, we are not different. There is only one consciousness and that is the consciousness called God, or the Light. You and I are one - one called Alfred Luntz and one called Mark Probert, they are one.

Of course, I have had a series of experiences that were quite different to his in his present life which seems to make me a different personality. As far as my physical personality goes, I am different, but my consciousness and that which he calls his consciousness, is one consciousness. Were this not so, there could be no such thing as communication. There could be no such thing as telepathy, clairvoyance, clairaudience. It is all because of one mind, one consciousness, Alfred Luntz, what is Alfred Luntz?

When I was born into the physical world the last time, I came in 1812. A war was going on then and there is one going on now and I do believe they are one and the same, never stopped! However, I was conditioned by many in the years of growing up to become a clergyman. And each and every one of those individuals that conditioned me made my personality. There is no such thing as a personality, we are all a composite of many other personalities and not only of human kind, but everything we come in contact with, color, sound and all of it goes to make up what is called the personality, not only the outer causes but the inner effects, our responses to the outer world.

When I take control of this man's brain cells, I try to become as much like him as is possible. I can't do a complete job of it, but I can come close enough to get through, to become one with his consciousness so that I can get through, in a somewhat clear manner. I make my contacts here and here (indicating) sometimes here in the front lobes of the brain.

My friends, perhaps some of you know this, it has been experimented with by our surgeons and medical men, using delicate instruments. They have touched certain centers of the brain and cause one to relive a dream. Think of that! They can touch certain centers of the brain and cause one to relive an experience that they had yesterday or the day before, to actually see these conditions taking place. So what is consciousness? What is mind? What is brain? What is the contact, what is the connection between these things?

The LIFE FORCE, if you will permit me to say so, is electrical, magnetic. The life force moving through the brain cells stimulates them even as these delicate instruments of the surgeons playing upon the brain cells stimulates them. The brain has a light covering. This covering is shot through with minute capritrix (?) it causes pressures on various cells of the brain. When one becomes excited, the heart beats faster the blood flows faster and sometimes in a more erratic condition through the capritrix (?) than at other times, perhaps causing us to see visions or to hear things, or even to become angry, to respond in certain ways or to become remorseful, or the feeling of being hurt and all that sort of thing.

I want to stop a moment and I want to ask you sitting here if what I have said up to this point makes reason with you. If you have any argument with it, tell me, heh?

Lady: Where is Mr. Probert? While you are here and speaking through Mr. Probert, where is Mr. Probert?

Prof. L: Now that is a good one, isn't it? In a way, it makes me wish I hadn't been here. (Laughter). There is a kind of game that perhaps some of you, when children, might have played called, Go away Peter, come back Paul. Do you remember? Well this is go away Alfred, come back Mark.

Lady: May I ask another question?

Prof. L.: I haven't answered that one yet, my dear. Yes, go ahead.

Lady: If Mark Probert wasn't very, very strong, would you stay here?

Prof. L.: Well, my dear, that depends on what you mean by strong, you can't mean physically strong, because he is fresh out of muscles you know.

Lady: Personality.

Prof. L.: Well, at the cost of being criticized later, or having himself criticized, I will say yes, because his personality is strong we are capable of using his physical structure. Not that entirely, but let me say something else my dear. He has a rather peculiar way of thinking. He doubts so much that it gives us room to play in - the field of doubt. If he ever fully accepted us as being what we claim to be, one of two things would happen, either he would let go of his own personality completely and we would take over his physical life, or he would throw us out in time.

We can't by the laws of truth, by the laws of life that is balance, we can't take possession of him in any manner unless he gives his personal consent. He doesn't have to agree that we are spooks, because we do not agree to that either, I am not a ghost, I am a living consciousness as my colleague Yada said earlier, and consciousness is everywhere. The machine, the body, is a sensitive center and is open at all times, not only to what is called living personalities but to thought forms created either in the physical or in the astral, or in both. We are constantly receiving telepathic messages, day and night, but the brain does not always register them as such. (Aside: what my dear?)

Irene: The first part of her question, I don't believe you answered Professor.

Prof. L.: The taking over...

Irene: No, dear, she asked where Mark was.

Prof. L.: Oh. At the moment he has an awareness only of being, not of anything. He is simply aware of being, simply aware of himself not as a name, but as a being. Is that clear?

Lady: Yes.

Prof. L.: Blast it, it is not so clear to me you know! I tried to express this thought before and I seemed to get into all manner of difficulties with it. It is a most troublesome thing, but he is simply aware and no more than that. Now, when he takes control of his consciousness, called Mark Probert, takes control of his physical self again, when he becomes aware of himself - let us put it that way, when he becomes aware of himself as a physical person, he may say to you, I drew a blank. I had no awareness at all. Now haven't you said this to yourself when you awaken in the morning, I didn't dream last night, I slept soundly. No dreams. But you did not know. If you had no awareness at all, you would not have been able to awaken.

The mind is constantly active, even though the kind of action may be no more than a state of I am I. You see, we are not names, we are not dies and labels. We are a something that can't be put into words, because the moment you name it, you are back where you started again. Yes. It is a very difficult thing and I don't suppose, I don't feel I have done an adequate job of answering your question, my dear, but I've done the best that I possibly can.

Lady: You told me what I wanted to know.

Prof. L.: Well, thank you.

Irene: Is there anyone else that would like to ask a question? There's a man back there.

Man: I would like to ask Dr. Luntz just what condition we are in when we are asleep. We are told that we leave the body. Now if we leave the body, can some entity like yourself, who is not material, can you momentarily possess our body? Is that done? Have you ever possessed anyone besides Mr. Probert? I'd like to have you explain that.

Prof. L.: No, no sir, we of the Circle are not permitted to go barging around snatching up bodies (Laughter). Whether one is asleep or awake! You see, my friend, most of us are asleep even when our eyes are open (Laughter). And so some spooks, of course, seeing one's eyes open, may fear that that one will be aware of a strange disposition of his body, so he will stand away and he will say to himself, I'll wait until he goes to sleep. This is a big mistake that they make, because in the sleep state that one is more aware of what is called the psychic world, or the mental world, than he is when awake. However, most of us, isn't it sad too my friends, most of us are not awake. We are somewhat along the lines of a zombie. We are puppets because we have permitted ourselves to be. Some of us I agree have control over what is going to happen to us in a manner of speaking, but we are still puppet and we let ourselves become so by not trying to learn.

Now, sir, when one is asleep, they do not necessarily leave their bodies. Truthfully speaking none of us are in a body anyway. Too damn wet in there! (Laughter). No, we are not in our bodies. I think any doctor who has dissected a body will tell you that he hasn't found one trace of the soul, except on the feet! Ha. Ha. (Laughter). You, sir, are just as conscious when you are sleeping as you are when you are awake, with eyes open.

Truthfully, you all know this I'm certain, that all of the body functions have a much lower rate of action, they all go down to various levels of action, depending upon how deep the sleep is. Sometimes in some individuals the respiration is so very low you have to touch the person to see if they are still breathing. The heart slows up on its beat and pulse and all of that. Certain of the brain cells you may say are cut off or closed off. However, that thing called consciousness is sitting there like a cat with one eye open. It knows what is going on. There are individuals that go to sleep and will sleep soundly through all kinds of noises and we wonder how. Why? Try an unfamiliar sound upon that one and see what happens. As long as the mind, the consciousness, is capable of recognizing that sound, it does not speak to him of danger or any threat of it. But bring in a sound that tells him danger is present to his physical self and that one will wake up rather quickly.

Perhaps I am in some respects wrong about this, perhaps it does not always happen that way, but I think most of the time it does. Is there a psychiatrist or psychologist or doctor who could object to what I have said? If so, I would be pleased to have him say something about it. That silence does not necessarily mean there is a doctor in the house or that there isn't. Doctors are peculiar creatures. Many of them like to simply listen, hereby they are showing an extreme sense of intelligence. We learn much by listening and not too much by talking. What do you think of my answer sir? Is there anything else I can say about that? Have you something else to say to that, sir?

Man: Yes, I would like to know, you are not in a body like we are. You left your body years ago. Now, when I leave mine, I don't want to stay around here. I want to go and see another planet. Now have you seen Venus or Mars? Where do you go? Are you limited by time and space?

Prof. L.: So you don't want to hang around the earth, heh? You want to go to Venus, sir? (Laughter). Well, that is quite all right. What you have in Venus, well it is a little hot in places, a little cold in places, somewhat livable in certain quarters of it. Altogether it is just another planet. However, it is my thought, of course I could be entirely wrong, but there are a number of vastly interesting things here on earth that you have apparently not experienced yet and it would be somewhat of a shame to go blowing off to another planet before you have covered this little mote in the vastness of space, heh? There is much to do here, so much, so many marvelous things to see and to get to know your fellowman better. It's most amusing, sir. You will have a fascinating time to hang around the earth and go to some of your friends' homes. (Laughter). You will sometimes perhaps feel guilty over the things that you do. Well, you will be cured instantly. Yes! (Laughter).

Remember you live in a gold fish bowl. When you come over here, your world, the matter world, is rather transparent, that is you can see it better than you did before. Yes, indeed! If, however, we limit ourselves to peeping into other peoples homes or lives, we can spend many hundreds of years doing this. Fascinating game, but not very lucrative. You do not really learn because our will, our wish to go poking around in other people's homes is rather a low emotional thought. You, sir, like myself, shall be where your consciousness is capable of taking you. If it is capable of taking you to Venus, well you shall be there. The question is, what have I to do with this or that?

Here I am strolling down the street one day and suddenly I run into an individual that I never knew before. Some little incident takes place that causes me to become aware of him and then aware of myself. Suddenly it all happens, a little thing perhaps. I turn around the corner so suddenly that I collide with him and then we get to talking about this and that and the first thing you know, my life has become so blasted complicated with that individual and I do not know whether I am going or coming. I wonder, what have I got to do with him? How did it start? Why? My entire life, my part of life has been changed...

( Tape Ends )