Benjamin Fulford
A Three Hour Jeff Rense Interview

   Benjamin Fulford On Jeff Rense: Hours 1, 2 & 3 Transcript 7-11-7


RENSE: I think we're up and running here. A little rocky, the day 
after the fourth of July, but I think we're connected to Japan.
This is going to be interesting. An awful lot of email has been 
coming in about the story from Dr. Henry Makow, Ph.D., called 
"Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati." This is a very 
interesting story, something the likes of which I have not seen in 
all the years of doing this program or website.
The author is Benjamin Fulford - the author quoted in the story. He 
is a North American, Canadian to be specific, expatriate living in 
Japan now. Let's just bring him on and say hello, see how he's doing 
and check this connection out. Are you there, Ben?

FULFORD: Yeah, I'm here.

RENSE: OK, we've got a little bit of delay.

FULFORD: It's a cell phone, so the reception is not so good.

RENSE: Well, you sound all right. 
There's a bit of a delay, so we'll have to deal with that.

A lot of people have been asking me, could this be real?  Is this a 
hoax? Is this a joke? What is it? We're going to find out much more 
about this story, so stay with us tonight as we continue this 
conversation with Benjamin Fulford.

He is the former Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes Magazine, and 
he quit in disgust when Forbes refused to run a damaging story about 
one of its advertisers. Boy, I know that game, and many of us in the 
media do - [those] who try to tell as close to the truth as we can 
without losing our jobs. In this case, Ben did eventually lose his 
job, because Forbes wouldn't back him. It's a story I've heard before.
He speaks as a very principled man - a reporter, journalist in the 
best tradition. Let's find out from Ben exactly what happened.
First of all, Ben, when were you named Asian bureau chief for Forbes, 
and what was your background before that, if you would?

FULFORD: Okay. I've been a journalist in Japan for about 20 years. I 
was bureau chief for Forbes from 1998 to 2004-2005.

RENSE: That's a good long stretch.
LFORD: Then I left for a lot of different complications.

RENSE: Your relationship with Forbes, up until the time you decided 
to part ways with them, was how? You were there with them for almost 
eight years, I guess.

FULFORD: It started out as a rather cushy job. They let me 
investigate a lot of stuff about Japanese organized crime and the 
seedier side of things in Japan. However, at a certain point I seemed 
to be getting too close to something they didn't want me to get to, 
and they started stopping stories.
There was a corruption story about GE that didn't make it. Another 
one about Citibank didn't make it.
Then when I finally found out there was an anti-virus software 
company who was actually making viruses, that was it.

RENSE: [Laughs] Yeah.

FULFORD: That was the last straw for me.

RENSE: They do that, I've heard. Why not? Once in a while you hear 
about firemen actually starting fires. I don't know, it's bizarre. 
That's what software companies that are in the anti-virus protection 
business are accused of doing from time to time - if not directly, 
then indirectly. It wouldn't surprise me.
When did you learn to speak Japanese?

FULFORD: Well, I went to university in Japan. I came here when I was 
19, and I've been here more than 20 years, so I just got it early on.

RENSE: Did it come easy to you?

FULFORD: Well, it's a very difficult language. Not grammatically, but 
because you have to grasp a whole new way of thinking. You have to 
understand that Asian culture and Western culture parted ways about 
40,000 years ago.

RENSE: [Laughs]

FULFORD: That means there's 40,000 years of folk wisdom that you have 
to catch up with to really understand what's going on, and that's 
very, very difficult.

RENSE: You mean four thousand, instead of forty thousand. There was 
nobody around back then, supposedly.

FULFORD: What I mean is genetic tests show that's when we separated - 
Orientals and Caucasians.

RENSE: I got it. Okay. Now with respect to the Asian mind, Western 
minds - the American mind in particular, we'll just keep it to North 
America and Canada - are not basically understood.
I predicate that statement on not having been there, not having any 
experience, but having talked to the former TIME bureau chief for 
Beijing on the [Rense] program some years ago. He said, when I asked 
him what the Asian mind thought about American Western diplomacy, in 
China specifically, he laughed. He said they consider Americans to be 
but children in a sandbox. That's the gulf we're talking about here.
Now would that remark ring true to you in any way?

FULFORD: Yes, in part. Another way they look at Western society is as 
a slave society.

RENSE: Slave society?

FULFORD: A slave society.

RENSE: Well, indeed it is. Go ahead.

FULFORD: Controlled in secret by a group of, well, Huckleberry Finn 
slave drivers.

RENSE: Well, we call them Illuminati, we call them Bilderbergers, 
CFR, Trilateral Commission. We can throw in Skull and Bones, the Club 
of Rome, the Fabian Society - all sorts of secret cartels, cabals and groups.
But at the top, it's a fairly singular power source, and it is 
certainly one of slave-owner to slaves. The encumbering of the slaves 
is becoming ever more adroit. With each passing month, it seems, the 
technology and politics are changing so quickly over here.
The view from Japan of North America. Let's talk about the United 
States. How is it for you, an expatriate from Canada?

FULFORD: Living in Japan, you mean?

RENSE: Yeah. What's it look like over there? What we're doing over 
here. And I mean 'we' with President Bush, Vice President Cheney, of 
course enjoying the lowest ratings, probably, in Presidential and 
Vice Presidential history. The American polls show the respect for 
the US Congress virtually around 14-15 percent in terms of job 
satisfaction. So tell me more.

FULFORD: It looks like maybe Russia did just before the Iron Curtain 
fell. It looks like a huge sea change is about to happen. Like the 
biggest thing since the Declaration of Independence, I think.

RENSE: Well yes, almost the antithesis of [the Declaration of 
Independence]. I can see how that would be a view from over there, 
and it's probably far more loaded with merit than we would like to agree.
Things are happening over here, as I think you well know, at a very 
rapid pace now. The controllers are literally pushing things in the 
American public's face that are so unconstitutional and illegal as to 
be laughable, if they weren't so tragic.

FULFORD: I think these people are scared. They are trying to carry 
out a plan. They are desperate now. Their plan is so horrendous and 
so bizarre, it provokes a split - even within their own ranks.

RENSE: I've heard talk of factions. You mentioned the words "they are 
desperate," the key word being 'desperate.' There are others who have 
said the same kind of thing - [the controllers] sense there is a 
window through which they must move, now, if they are ever going to 
move. Do you agree with that?

FULFORD: Yes. Let me tell you something. I was offered the job of 
finance minister in Japan by the Freemasons. Okay?

RENSE: When?

FULFORD: I brought [my case against] David Rockefeller. I actually 
was able to link him to some murders of bankers and other people in 
Japan, as a part of his effort to take over the Japanese financial system.
When I confronted the former Japanese finance minister, Heizo 
Takanaka (ph) with this, he sent a ninja, believe it or not - a real 
live ninja - who offered me a gold Freemason badge. He told me I 
could either accept a job of great power or be killed.
At first I thought I had no choice, I had to go along, which is what 
happens to a lot of people when they get pulled into this. But then 
the Chinese secret society showed up and offered me protection. So 
that's why I can talk about this.
I want to tell you. I got right inside, right at the very top. 
Anybody up to a 33rd degree Freemason is a chump. They think they're 
doing good for humankind and they're doing God's work. There are 13 
degrees above the 33rd degree.

RENSE: So I've heard.

FULFORD: The first thing they learn is that there is no God. We are 
God. This is what they are taught. And they are, believe it or not, 
the descendants of Babylonian pirates. This goes back almost 6000 
years. It's ancient Babylonian slave-driver technology.
They use a combination of bribes, murder, ostracism, mind control, 
whatever. They have a huge arsenal. They think very, very long term.
The story I've figured out now is that when they started with the 
Zionism, they had this plan to make a capital in Jerusalem. A lot of 
the religious Jews thought of this as blasphemy, but they actually did it.
[Bumper music begins]
And then there was a convergence. There was a really radical faction 
that had this plan to eliminate Christianity. Now this is going to 
sound so horrendous, believe me...

RENSE: Hold on right there, Ben. Let me ask you to pause. We'll take 
a break, and come back to that thought. Eliminating Christianity. 
Very interesting.
Lots already on the table here. My guest is Benjamin Fulford, the 
former Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes magazine, who has just a 
stunningly provocative piece up on the site written by Dr. Henry 
Makow, Ph.D., who interviewed Ben at great length. You'll see it up 
there on Featured Stories, on the left hand side of my home page.
So by all means, take a look. Right under that, a story written by 
Benjamin Fulford - the Secret History of the Freemasons in Japan - as 
well. Be back in a minute.

RENSE: Okay, back with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. He, by the 
way, has published 15 books written in Japanese, with cumulative 
sales running at over half a million copies. He's got his own weekly 
two-hour television program over there, appears frequently on 
numerous other nationally broadcast programs in Japan, and has 
regular columns in a variety of best-selling Japanese magazines.
My guest, Benjamin Fulford. Lucky to connect with him. At showtime we 
couldn't get through to his land line, which I had a hunch might be 
the case. These controversial subjects, one never knows who might be 
playing phone games. We have him on the line right now.
Go ahead and tell us, then, what this story about abolishing 
Christianity is about. Is that about the one world, New World Order religion?

FULFORD: Yes. What I first got wind of was a plan to kill Asians - 
reduce the population of Asians. They told me, once I was invited in, 
that they had a plan to reduce the population of Asians.

RENSE: Okay, excuse me, Ben, but when you say "They invited you in," 
who is 'They' and what were you 'in'?

FULFORD: What happened was I interviewed Heizo Takanaka (ph), the 
former Japanese finance minister.

RENSE: What year was this, approximately?

FULFORD: This year, in fact. I hit a tender spot. I confronted him 
with having sold the Japanese financial system over to the 
Rockefellers. Then he sent the ninja, who offered me to join the 
Freemasons. They offered me the job as finance minister.

RENSE: If I might interject here, please explain what it is. Most 
Americans and most listening in Canada, or wherever they're listening 
from around the world, won't understand why or how the Rockefellers 
are so heavily entrenched and powerful in Japan. In point of fact, 
the Rockefellers, I guess, own much of Japan, and have since World 
War Two. So tell us a little bit about that background, if you would.

FULFORD: The Rockefellers, you have to understand their real 
influence. Everybody outside of America seems to know how powerful 
they are, but they try to hide this fact from their own people. You 
have to go back to the very first Rockefeller. You have to go back to 
1918. This is what Forbes magazine figured out...

RENSE: John Rockefeller?

FULFORD: Yeah. He was worth about 250 billion in today's money. And 
the ten richest people controlled about 70 percent of the money 
supply. This was before they took over the financial system - the Fed.
What they've done is hidden it all through a series of charitable 
foundations. There's over two hundred, three hundred foundations. 
They use this to finance universities, to finance research. So they 
control through money, and they hide it through these foundations.
If you do a check, you will see David Rockefeller is only worth three 
billion or so. That's because the rest of it is hidden in these 
charitable foundations, which they own and control.

RENSE: Okay, name a few of them. Just give us a few.

FULFORD: Well, the Rockefeller foundation, for one. There's a whole 
bunch. Just look under Google with Rockefeller and Foundation, and 
you'll see so many. They're always considered the secret rulers of 
the United States, and much of the world.
They are the hidden patriarchs of this secret government.

RENSE: Okay. How did the Rockefellers, on the planet, stand up to the 

FULFORD: There is an alliance and a split as well. The Rothschilds 
originally set the Rockefellers up. They helped them monopolize oil. 
What happened was the Rockefellers got very strong, and became the 
more dominant partners in the whole enterprise.
Europe is still basically controlled by the Rothschilds. The head of 
the Rothschild side of the clan is Phillip Rothschild, in London. 
There is another group that controls France, Belgium and Holland, 
which is the Grand Lodge of the Orient in France, and is another 
branch of the Rothschilds.
There was a German branch of the Rothschilds. They have laid low 
since Hitler was purged.
You have to think of it as royalty. Royal families interbred with old 
financial families. They interbreed with each other and they keep 
control that way. The Freemasons are one of the secret societies they 
use to control European and North American society.

RENSE: Who uses the Freemasons? The Rothschilds or the Rockefellers, or both?

FULFORD: They both do. They also control Mossad and the CIA, as far 
as I can tell. Most of the people in the CIA think they're working 
for the United States of America. The reality is they are working for 
robber barons.
So that's how people look at the United States. They look at it as an 
enclave controlled by the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers.

RENSE: How did that extend to Japan? By virtue of the victory in World War II?

FULFORD: Yes. It keeps being a Rothschild sphere of influence and 
became a Rockefeller sphere of influence. You have to understand the 
Japanese were pretty independent before World War II, but they had 
close associations with the Rothschilds, who originally financed 
their modernization.

RENSE: They also pushed the Japanese to engage in the Russo-Japanese 
war, did they not?

FULFORD: Yes. Absolutely. They armed them for it, and they helped 
them, and it was a very successful venture. The Japanese had a deep 
gratitude as a result.
[Bumper music]
To this day, they have very friendly feelings.

RENSE: All right. Let's pause on that, and we'll come back and find 
out about the eradication of Christianity on the planet, and the 
Masonic influence, being of course employed at the behest of the 
Rockefellers and / or the Rothschilds. So we'll explore that.
My guest is Benjamin Fulford, who has a dynamite article up there, 
courtesy of the superb, I call him brilliant writer, Henry Makow, 
Ph.D., who did a lot of research on this and interviewed Ben at great 
length. We're very honored to have it. You'll see it up there in 
Featured Stories. "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati."
Be right back with Ben Fulford in just a minute.

RENSE: Okay, back with Benjamin Fulford. Read the article by Dr. 
Henry Makow, Ph.D., "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati," 
and then read the article by Ben Fulford right under that, in the 
Featured Story box at <> Click on Ben's 
name, go to his own website in English. It's his own website, in 
Japanese, of course, but he's got one for all of us folks as well.
Okay, the plan to eliminate Christianity. Now you mentioned how the 
Rothschilds and the Zionists set up their Jerusalem and their Middle East.

FULFORD: What they did was they tried to make the Bible prophecy come 
true, without the intervention of God. In other words, they did it. 
It wasn't any Divine intervention.
So they are God. They believe themselves to be as powerful as God. 
[They believe] there is no God; they are the equivalent [of God] on 
Earth. They are the descendants of Babylonian tyrants.
So one thing I've been hearing, and this was disturbing - when I was 
invited to join - was that they did plan to reduce the world's 
population by seven billion people.

RENSE: This goes back to Global 2000. One more word about this 
severely atheistic organization, which is using organized religion to 
hide behind, as they always have. It's not a big surprise. And of 
course, that leads to all kinds of difficulties, shall we say. But 
it's an interesting thing to know.
Okay. You were invited to join the organization. A Rockefeller ninja 
was sent to make you an offer you could not refuse. But you decided 
not to accept.


RENSE: How did you decide not to accept? We have plenty of time. So 
you get the offer, and what happened?

FULFORD: The next day I get contacted by a gentleman who says he 
represents a Chinese secret society.

RENSE: The very next day.

FULFORD: The very next day.

RENSE: And how did that person know to contact you the very next day? 
How did you determine later on that he or she might have known that?

FULFORD: I don't know. They keep their secrets quite well. I assume 
they have a mole very high up in the organization. You have to 
understand that the Chinese secret society also has deep roots in 
Japan. Maybe I should give you a brief history of these people.
I recognized them from the history books. So when they approached me, 
I already had some knowledge about them.

RENSE: May I ask another question? How did they approach you? Did 
they call you and say, "Ben, we'd like to talk to you," or did they 
just come knocking at your door? What happened?

FULFORD: I got a phone call from a gentleman who said he'd like to 
meet me and talk about something important.

RENSE: Was he speaking English or Japanese?

FULFORD: Japanese.

RENSE: All right. So let's go back and do a little history on this 
organization now.

FULFORD: Okay. The Ming dynasty was the high point in Chinese 
history. This was when their civilization reached a peak. They were 
invaded by some very uncouth barbarians known as the Manchus. When 
this happened, the Ming army - they were betrayed by a border general 
- became an underground organization, a secret society.
So there are two branches. The old Ming army and the old Ming navy. 
These are their descendants.
They wanted to over throw the Qing [formed by the Manchus] and 
restore the Ming. Their first big attempt was what we know of as the 
Boxer Rebellion. Then later they got huge help from the Japanese 
royal family, from the Meiji.

RENSE: That's M-E-I-J-I, correct?

FULFORD: Yeah. These are the people who modernized Japan. So we're 
talking about the beginning of the 1900s.

RENSE: So the Meiji family modernized Japan at the beginning of the 
1900s. All right.

FULFORD: Yeah. It was a bunch of Freemasons set up by the Rothschilds.

RENSE: That's how the Rothschilds first got involved with Japan and 
China. I understand.

FULFORD: Right. Unknown to the Rothschilds - or maybe they knew at 
the time, I don't know - the Japanese helped this Chinese secret 
society overthrow the Ming dynasty. They also got help from 
Chinatowns all over the world, which is where they have their bases. 
This is how Sun Yat-Sen overthrew the last emperor.

RENSE: So you're saying, in a way, Sun Yat-Sen was a tool of the 
Masons, who were a tool of the Rothschilds.

FULFORD: Well, in appearances it is like that. The Asians don't 
particularly want to be ruled by white people, so it doesn't really 
work in fact all around. They'll take their money, but they're not 
going to do everything they're told.

RENSE: That was the political mechanism, in so many words. That's how 
Sun Yat-Sen assumed power. Okay.

FULFORD: He was later ousted. As you know, the Japanese invaded 
China, and they were trying to take it over. It was a huge battle 
over the future of the planet, which evolved into World War II. They 
were fighting a proxy war in China for over a decade before World War 
II started.

RENSE: Very few Americans understand that.

FULFORD: The secret society ended up fighting the communist Chinese, 
being defeated and going underground.

RENSE: So they were a part of Chiang Kai-Shek's apparatus. They were 
supporting him, allies?

FULFORD: Well, they were allied with him, as I said, but not part of 
his apparatus.

RENSE: Okay, so they were fighting with him, supporting him, and he 
lost. Okay. Mao Zedong?
FULFORD: ...was financed by the Soviet Union, by the Rothschilds on 
that side of the equation. Then they kicked out the connection in the 
1960s, and China became independent from Rothschild and Freemason control.

RENSE: Was that a big shock to the Rothschilds at the time, or did 
they see it coming?

FULFORD: No! It was a big shock. There was all this talk about "who 
lost China?" This was a major blow for them. But they never really 
controlled China. Like I said, the Chinese were on to them, and onto 
their game. They weren't going to be fooled.

RENSE: How did the British East India Company and the opium wars play 
into this in the 18th and 19th centuries?

FULFORD: The story there is the British - while everyone else was 
buying lots of tea and had nothing to pay for it with - invaded 
China, unfortunately to buy opium, so they could have their tea. That 
was a war of invasion. But they couldn't control China. It was just 
too big for them to manage. So instead they just threatened them and 
kept them as a vassal state, in that sense.

RENSE: They had enough trouble with the United States before, and it 
was known as the colonies, but yes - trying to control China, I can 
see, would be virtually [impossible].

FULFORD: It's worth noting that the Skull and Bones were opium and 
slave traders. So they were deeply involved in all this.

RENSE: A lot of Zionists were in the slave trade too. A tremendous 
Zionist / Jewish participation in that filthy business.

FULFORD: Sure. There is still trading going on to this day.

RENSE: Well, that's called white slavery. I don't know how many tens 
of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of women and children are 
sold into slavery through various conduits that often run into Israel 
every year.
[Bumper music]


RENSE: All right, Benjamin, we'll come right back in our conversation 
with Benjamin Fulford. Do visit his website, and do visit <> Look for his article about the 
Freemasons and their history as well. It's in the fifth featured 
story down - "The Secret History of the Freemasons in Japan." Be right back.

RENSE: Okay. Back with Benjamin Fulford. We're going to pursue the 
issue of Christianity and its future, or lack thereof, in a few 
minutes. We're doing a little background now on the Chinese secret 
society, which actually came to the rescue, as it were. Ben would 
either be filthy rich now, or dead.

FULFORD: [Laughs]

RENSE: [Laughs] Go ahead.

FULFORD: Just to divert a bit, it is what is known in folklore as 
making a deal with the Devil, right? They offer you, I would have 
been finance minister and I would have earned billions of dollars - 
looting the Japanese to finance genocide.

RENSE: Which goes back to our earlier comment about reducing the 
world population, which we're going to get to. We have a lot of time 
tonight. That, of course, goes back to the actual printed projection 
of reducing the world population called Global 2000, by 75 or 80 
percent. But we'll get back to that in a few minutes. Go ahead.

FULFORD: When I left the Chinese, at first I didn't know what to make of it.

RENSE: How was your meeting with them, Ben? Did they come to your 
place and sit down and talk to you?

FULFORD: No, no. In a hotel room.

RENSE: Was it one person or two?

FULFORD: Two people.

RENSE: Male or female?


RENSE: Dressed?

FULFORD: Dressed in pretty ordinary, not very expensive-looking clothing.

RENSE: Okay. They sat you down. You had never heard about this secret 
society before, correct?

FULFORD: Oh, I had, I had!

RENSE: But not in terms of it being active to the extent that it 
might pop up in your life. You'd heard about it in the past.

FULFORD: I've studied Chinese history. I read about them in the 
history books as the Green and the Red Gang, who fought the 
communists in Shanghai, in 1949.

RENSE: That was my point. Go ahead, please.

FULFORD: For me it was like a ghost from the history books appearing 
in front of me. They told me they had a membership worldwide of six 
million, including 1.8 million gangsters - all the Asian gangsters in 
the world - and 100,000 professional assassins.
Now, I wasn't sure whether or not to believe these people. I later 
flew to Taiwan and met the heads. We were surrounded by hundreds and 
hundreds of men in black suits who looked like gangsters. I was 
getting some martial arts displays.
I believe they are not lying when they say they have six million 
members, and a lot of them are gangsters.

RENSE: Now are they headquartered in Taiwan, or did they just pick 
that as a meeting place for you?

FULFORD: No. They are headquartered in Taiwan. It's a very secret 
organization. They don't really have a building where they say, "This 
is our headquarters."

RENSE: They've been there since Chiang Kai-Shek fled there in 1949, I 
guess, and before that.

FULFORD: They've infiltrated the Chinese government right up to the 
politburo level. They are all over China and all over the world. The 
Japanese Yakuza gangs are also a part of this. Many of them.

RENSE: The Yakuza?

FULFORD: Yes. Yakuza gangsters. There's about 150 thousand of them 
throughout Japan.

RENSE: Let's talk for a moment about their projection of power in the 
United States. There are a lot of Asians now, some Asian gangs. 
Certainly there are Chinatowns around the US. In every big city there 
is a Chinese community. Are they projecting power through those 
various locations and venues?

FULFORD: Absolutely. They are everywhere. Remember that 2/3rds of the 
members are scholars, not gangsters. These will be people working as 
researchers, for example, in government laboratories, or as 
university professors.

RENSE: Now we know, Ben, there are lots of Chinese over here in the 
United States. At the university level, certainly doing contract work 
for very important corporations. By the tens of thousands, they are 
over here. Now is this People's Liberation Army, or is this a secret 
society, or is it both?

FULFORD: These people are anti-Communist. You've got to get that 
clear. They are not part of the People's Republic of China.

RENSE: So the PLA has spies all over the place here, but the secret 
society is not part of that. They are completely opposed to it.

FULFORD: Yeah. They are a totally separate organization. But they do 
have membership, of course, in the Chinese secret police, et cetera. 
It's a weird mix.
If they do have one loyalty, the rules I was told were to protect the 
weak, fight against injustice, to help each other. There is nothing I 
would find morally objectionable in what they told me were their 
codes. It just reads like a book of morals.

RENSE: It sounds like good old-fashioned values. That would work here.
So you had this meeting in Taiwan. Where did that take place, and 
what was the meeting like? Who were the people you met with? I don't 
expect you to name them or show us pictures on the Internet, but what 
did these people say?

FULFORD: Well, it was a meeting upstairs in a small Chinese 
restaurant, in a small, nondescript room.

RENSE: Geez! It sounds like a Hollywood movie!

FULFORD: [Laughs] Yeah! And these guys looked like something out of a 
Hollywood movie. Some of them were missing like four fingers. One guy 
I met said he personally killed a hundred people. They were pretty 
scary, funky people, let me tell you that. Some of them.
Some of them had two Ph.D.'s, and were very sophisticated and charming.

RENSE: The core group you met with were numbered how many?

FULFORD: Well, there was a dozen, and then the real core... I don't 
know how much I should be able to disclose, but, you know, I mean, uh...

RENSE: Well, you don't have to go any further than you don't want to.

FULFORD: They explained to me - they understood the urgency, that 
there was a genocide plan, and they were manufacturing diseases.

RENSE: When I said you don't have to go any further than you don't 
want to, I imagine you don't have to go any further than you want to, 
of course. I misspoke there. The gist of this, the crux of this thing 
was their concern of an ethnic-specific bio-weapon, perhaps, or 
something along those lines, that would eradicate much of the Asian 
population base?

FULFORD: Yes. And SARS was artificially manufactured.

RENSE: SARS, of course, first popped up in Guangdong Province in 
China, I believe, where the Chinese maintain, the People's Liberation 
Army has one or two bio-weapons labs in Guangdong. Guangdong is also 
where H5N1 seemingly originated. That's one of the most lethal 
strains of it in the bird community worldwide.
So yeah, interesting. Go right ahead.

FULFORD: They don't like the idea of plans to wipe out... what the 
Japanese freemason told me, the one connected to Rockefeller, was the 
plan was to reduce Asia's population to 500 million. And Japan was 
ordered to reduce their population to 75 million.

RENSE: Ordered by?

FULFORD: By the Rockefellers and the Freemasons, and these interbred 
Illuminati. They tried to do it from birth control, which is ideal, 
but if not, then through disease or war - whatever is necessary.

RENSE: Okay. You mentioned SARS, and it broke out. Interestingly 
enough, I'm going to make a point here. I think it's very germane. 
You're an ex-Canadian. Now SARS took a big toll of people in Canada - 
healthcare workers in hospitals specifically. In one hospital I know 
they lost a lot of people.
At one point in the SARS - we won't call it an epidemic, but in the 
SARS outbreak here, they printed, in a major Canadian newspaper, 
pictures of all the fatalities of SARS in Canada. And there were 
about 50 to 100, Ben.
I looked at those pictures and I said to myself, "Uh-oh. SARS comes 
from China." I looked at these pictures, and all but 2 or 3 or 4 of 
the people - and let's just say there were 50 - were Asians! They 
were all Asians!

FULFORD: SARS affects people with only a certain genotype - and most 
of these people are Asian.

RENSE: All right. That ties in with the picture I saw.
FULFORD: Look at the Project for a New American Century, page 60, 
"Rebuilding America's Defenses." They are saying bio-weapons that can 
target specific genotypes can be used for political tools.

RENSE: Well, they've had that capability for 20-25 years, at least. 
They can target blue eyes, green eyes, blonde hair, brown hair, 
height, weight. Certainly anything to do with race or genetics can be 
programmed into bio-weapons. That's not a surprise.
The SARS thing was, in your opinion, what? Something introduced by 
the West to let the Chinese know that they are going to get...

FULFORD: They were going to attempt to cull the Chinese population.

RENSE: So that was a full-blown attempt to massively infect China 
with some kind of a pandemic that would wipe out a great deal of the 
people there? That wasn't just an experiment or a calling card or a 
wake-up call?

FULFORD: No. I believe it was a sincere attempt to kill them. And of 
course, people don't like being killed, which is why this society 
re-activated itself after being dormant for so many years. It's like 
an emergency fire brigade. Normally people just go about their lives 
and do their jobs - they don't do anything illegal. But if there is a 
crisis, they all band together.
An interesting thing, as a digression. When Sun Yat-Sen took over, he 
found the Imperial Treasure - a horde of treasure built up by the 
Chinese emperors over the millennia. When the Communists took over, 
some of this treasure was shipped off to the National Palace Museum 
in Taiwan, but some of it was hidden in a mountain in China.
The Communists tortured three thousand people to try to find out 
where it was, and nobody spoke. This is their emergency war chest, 
which they will dig up and spend if they feel...

RENSE: You mean the secret society.


RENSE: Okay. So the Chinese communists could not find half of the 
treasure. Half went to Taiwan, half remained on the mainland. This is 
the secret society's bankroll?

FULFORD: Yes. It's their emergency fund for rainy days.

RENSE: It must be a pretty handsome fund for rainy days.

FULFORD: Yes. It's [worth] billions of dollars.

RENSE: Yeah, I would think. Stand by, if you would, Ben. We have to 
take a break here and will be back momentarily. We'll come right back 
and continue our wide-ranging conversation. It's quite focused, 
really, when you look at the totality of it.
Again, SARS, when you look at Ben Fulford and his Chinese / Asian 
contact, was an attack. He believes it was a full-blown attack to 
unleash a bio-specific agent in China, a virus, to wipe out most Chinese.
That might account for some of the exclamations of the Chinese 
general staff, the second in command of the military, who has said 
twice now that China is preparing to wage and to win a nuclear war 
with the United States. Now maybe he was talking about the 
Rockefeller interests in the United States. I don't know.
This is an interesting conversation, to put it mildly. Benjamin 
Fulford is my guest. We'll be right back with hour number two of our 
conversation in a few minutes.

RENSE: Okay, back with Benjamin Fulford, the former Asian-Pacific 
bureau chief for Forbes Magazine for eight years. He's got quite a 
CV. You can see it on his website by clicking on his name at <>
We're talking about the Asian / Chinese secret society, which has 
tentacles all over the world. It is more than concerned about the 
plans, and apparently one failed attempt, to massively reduce the 
Chinese population, enroute to an overall world population reduction 
of some 80 percent. At least that's our understanding of the plans of 
a faction of the world elite, the Illuminati, the controllers, and so forth.
Again, a very fascinating conversation. In the Featured Story section 
of <>, Dr. Henry Makow's article, "Chinese 
Secret Society Challenges Illuminati," all about Ben Fulford. Ben's 
article underneath it, "The Secret History of the Freemasons in 
Japan," is a very interesting history lesson in and of itself.
Okay, Ben. You had your meeting in Taiwan. You met upstairs in a 
rather plain, nondescript room in a Chinese restaurant. You met with 
these guys. They are well-dressed guys at this point, would you say?

FULFORD: Some of them were obviously billionaires, and some were 
senior government figures. Some of them...

RENSE: How could you think they were obviously billionaires, Ben? 
What was it about them that made you feel that?

FULFORD: Well, the list of companies they owned...

RENSE: Did they present their own CV to you to prove their pedigree?

FULFORD: [With] some of them, you can see their faces in the 
newspaper all the time.

RENSE: I see. Okay. With your knowledge, you knew who some of them were.


 And again, some of them, Ben Fulford would never have guessed. 
These are professional people, they're not bums. Here they are, 
saying "Ben, we trust you not to talk about this too much. And what 
we're trying to do is..."
What did they say they were trying to accomplish?

FULFORD: They want to stop these people, obviously.

RENSE: Who are 'these people'? The Rockefeller, Rothschild, 
Freemasons and Illuminati?

FULFORD: The Rockefellers, the Illuminati families.

RENSE: Would you call them anti-Asian? Westerners? What would you call them?

FULFORD: They are racists, but they are more than that. They want to 
enslave humanity.

RENSE: Okay. And the fewer the number left around, the easier it is 
to enslave them. So they want a skeleton crew, so to speak, left in 
China to run things.

FULFORD: They like the Chinese. They want to keep some Chinese around 
because they make good stuff cheap, no?

RENSE: Yeah, just like they want to keep some Africans around in 
sub-Saharan Africa to work the plantation.

FULFORD: Right. That sort of thinking. Their plan, as I was told by 
the Japanese Illuminati, was to weaken China through disease, and 
also starvation. They are trying to engineer a global food shortage 
by creating viruses that affect our major food crops.
Then they want to provoke a war by getting Taiwan to declare 
independence. Their hope, by that time, is to have the Japanese army 
as a subdivision of the US army, ready to pounce on China and divide 
it into six countries. This was the plan told to me by very senior 
Japanese people.

RENSE: When was this plan cooped [laughs] - kooky plan, but when was 
it cooked up?

FULFORD: Quite a long time ago. These people think in terms of 
decades or even longer.

RENSE: The Japanese army is not able to go in and subjugate China. This is...

FULFORD: The Japanese army is one of the biggest armies in the world. 
It's huge. It would be working with the US Army and the Navy.

RENSE: How big is the Japanese army? How many standing men in uniform?

FULFORD: It's an 'instant ramen' army. What they have is lots and 
lots of officers and lots and lots of weapons. They have the third 
biggest military budget in the world. What they can do at any time is 
grab three million office workers off the street and turn them into soldiers.


FULFORD: That's quite huge, and very up to date.

RENSE: So this plan of subjugating China with this army, and other 
factors like what's left of our army and military - is it a plan that 
is still cohesive, militarily?

FULFORD: Not really. The Japanese are still going according to the 
original plan, but that blew up in Iraq, didn't it?

RENSE: It sure did!

FULFORD: The plan was to grab all the oil in the Middle East, and 
then go and get China. But they couldn't quite get their Middle 
Eastern part done. That's why, a very important thing to understand 
is that because the Rothschild faction split with the Rockefellers, 
that's when we had this "Freedom Fries" business and all this 
anti-French stuff.
They are not getting enough financing to maintain a big army there. 
That's why there are 150,000 troops. The only money they're getting 
now is from Japan. The Europeans aren't willing to finance this 
adventure in Iraq anymore.
So there has been a very major schism here between the Rothschilds 
and the Rockefellers. That's part of the reason why they can't afford 
to run the Iraq thing properly.

RENSE: Now the [Chinese] secret society, pointing to SARS as an 
attempt. That's what galvanized them.
I guess we come to the next obvious question. Why, then, Fulford?

FULFORD: I wrote about this in a book in Japanese, which alerted 
them. Then they did their own research and confirmed that it was true.

RENSE: You wrote about the population reduction plans?

FULFORD: Yeah, and SARS and stuff, and how it only affected mainly 
Asians. Also an interesting little misquote can be found in the 
Congressional record, from July 13, 2005. You have a bio-weapons 
expert saying the weaponization of bird flu is taking place across 
Asia. In the Congressional record, they tried to erase it. I've got 
multiple copies stacked here and there.

RENSE: We do know that on April Fool's Day, April 1st of 2005, the 
resident of the White House, George Bush, signed an executive order 
which gave the federal government - i.e. George Bush and anybody he 
designates - full power of quarantine over any and all Americans, 
towns, cities, counties, states, which have been exposed to H5N1, 
Avian influenza, or any other exotic, infectious micro-organism. 
They're not taking any chances.
So somebody knows something somewhere. We've been tracking this - you 
don't know this - on my program for some three years now, with Dr. 
Henry Al-Nyman (ph), Ph.D., who is a brilliant micro-biologist and 
geneticist. He has been following this genetically from the 
beginning, forecasting what it would do, and how it is learning more 
and more about how to survive and thrive in mammals, which it is very 
close to doing now. It's changing all the time, and getting closer 
and closer to true pandemic status.
Now if there is an Asian genetic factor to this, I'm not aware of it, 
but we do know that Indonesia is rampant with H5N1, and Vietnam, 
Cambodia, and Taiwan have had a lot of trouble with it. So that's a fact.

FULFORD: It's also a fact that the Asians are a little over sharing 
the bird flu data with the Americans. [They say,] "Why should we give 
you stuff that will allow you to create a vaccine to protect your own 
people while we die?"

RENSE: That makes sense. We wondered why the genomes were being 
withheld, why the samples were being withheld.

FULFORD: The Chinese haven't been giving them for years now. They 
said, "The hell with that. We're not going to protect your own people 
while you try to kill us."

RENSE: Okay. Back to the meeting in Taiwan.

FULFORD: They decided that these people need to be overthrown.

RENSE: The Rothschilds, the Illuminati, the Rockefellers.

FULFORD: Yeah. The Illuminati. And specifically, if I have to, I will 
ally myself with the Rothschilds against the Rockefellers, if it 
comes to it. I'd rather get them both out of power, but the 
Rothschilds are a much mellower bunch at this point. They're 
[promoting] the global warming thing. It's stupid, but...

RENSE: I wouldn't agree with you, but I would suggest that what 
they're doing in Europe with Bush's so-called defensive missiles, 
threatening and pushing and provoking Russia, is not particularly 
sanguine; it's pretty damn dangerous.
The Russians today announced they are going to deploy their new 
Iskander (ph). It's a new medium-range cruise missile, in Western 
Russia, to oppose the so-called Bush 'defensive' missiles, which of 
course are being placed there, or will be placed there, to knock down 
the Topol-M, which has also just been advanced dramatically.
The Topol-M was a single-bang warhead. Now it's a MERV'ed warhead, 
and it has had two successful test firings. So the Topol-M is now 
MERV'ed, meaning it has ten independently targeted thermonuclear 
warheads in each rocket.
Now the Topol has a triple-speed boost phase, which makes it very 
hard to knock down. These interceptor rockets that Bush wants to put 
in Europe are specifically designed to try to stop the Topol-M in its 
boost phase. That's another story.
Go ahead, please.

FULFORD: What it means is we've now got the Russians and the Chinese. 
I've now been contacted by the Japanese secret government, and it 
looks like they're also going to turn against the Rockefellers.

RENSE: Now the Rockefellers have the Japanese by the shorthairs, or 
at least they have so far.

FULFORD: Yeah. They have so far. The thing is, the Japanese want to 
keep friendly relations with the United States. They really do like 
that US-Japan relationship and they don't want to damage that. But if 
they can preserve that relationship and get rid of the Rockefellers, 
that would be very happy for them - very happy indeed.
[Bumper music]

RENSE: So is this suggesting some kind of cooperation between the 
Chinese secret society and the Japanese government, which wants 
liberation from the yoke of the Rothschilds?

FULFORD: Absolutely! Absolutely. They are cooperating. They are going 
to be given an ultimatum soon. We're just waiting for all our ducks 
to be in a row.

RENSE: All right, stand by. Hold on right there, Ben. We'll come back 
and talk more about this.
Okay. Wow. Quite a fortune cookie. We'll be right back in just a few 
minutes with Benjamin Fulford.

RENSE: Okay. And back with Ben Fulford. Hi, Ben. You want to carry on 
right where we were?

FULFORD: Yes. They are going to be given an ultimatum.
When these people first contacted me, once I knew they were for real, 
the first thing I thought was, "We'll play 9/11 movies in Chinatowns 
around the world." But then I thought, "Wait a minute. These guys are 
really bad people." I thought about it.
I realized the Illuminati and all their servants are about 10,000 
people. Everyone below them - if they knew what the 10,000 were 
doing, they would be furious, and rip them out of their houses and 
hang them from the nearest lampposts. Right?

RENSE: Mm hm.

FULFORD: The Chinese [secret society has] six million. So that's 600 
to 1 odds. More specifically, there are ten professional assassins 
for each member of the Illuminati. So basically it's checkmate for them.
The question is how to bring this out to the public and make this a 
formal thing.
However, killing people is something I don't like - and neither do 
they. So the first order of business is to try to talk, before things 
get radical.
The point is, there is the technical ability to wipe them all out in 
a matter of hours. They would all be assassinated.
But instead, I think, they're going to be offered an opportunity. I 
don't think - I know. They are going to be offered an opportunity to 

RENSE: Will you be playing a role in making such an offer?

FULFORD: Absolutely. I am their spokesman. My job is to represent 
them in the Western world.
I know what I am allowed to say and what I am not allowed to say.
The point is this. We would start by killing David Rockefeller, and 
then work our way down the list until they agree to our terms.

RENSE: You speak, I want to make this clear. Ben Fulford is speaking 
hypothetically here.

FULFORD: Hypothetically. What I'm saying is that if they do not surrender...

RENSE: ...or comply, or become acquiescent...

FULFORD: Yes. Then we have to protect ourselves from genocide. And 
the way to do that, with the minimum possible death, is we start at 
the top of the Eye and work our way down until they agree.

RENSE: So the idea would be five or ten thousand is a lot better than 
a billion.

FULFORD: Zero is a lot better than five or ten thousand!

RENSE: And that was my next statement. Yes. I understand that.

FULFORD: My job is to try to make sure that not a single person dies. 
That is the ideal. The commissions that are going to be offered - and 
I know David Rockefeller is going to be listening to this, so you'd 
better listen, David Rockefeller:
1. They are going to be allowed to keep their palaces and their 
servants. They will be given an amnesty, but they must appear before 
a truth commission.
2. And they must promise - them and their clan - to never, ever try 
again to enslave the human race.
3. And third, they must spend the rest of their lives doing good deeds.
Those are the conditions. I think they're very good ones, and it's 
the best they have available. They'd better hurry before the American 
people drag them out of their houses and hang them from the nearest 
lampposts, which I think is about to happen anyway.

RENSE: Do those conditions apply to the Rothschilds as well?

FULFORD: Yeah, I mean, maybe the Rothschilds can work themselves 
their own deal. I'm in contact with a Rothschild representative, and 
maybe we can come up with something else. The main point is to stop 
the genocide. That is the number one goal.

RENSE: What would you term what the Americans are doing in Iraq and 
Afghanistan? We have seen the slaughter of over...

FULFORD: Well, they're irradiating it with nuclear dust!

RENSE: We are turning it into nuclear dust, we have killed already 
close to one million Iraqis since the Iraq war began over four years 
ago. The threat now to invade Iran, a country of 70 to 80 million 
people, is quite clearly on the front burner again. So this is genocide.


RENSE: And this is not being orchestrated entirely by the 
Rockefellers, although I do see the connection to what you're saying. 
Now we want to quickly jump over to... go ahead.

FULFORD: The Rockefellers are just one... I don't want to put 
everything on that one name. You've got to remember that you have the 
JP Morgan descendants.
What people in America need to do is get an old Who's Who. Look up 
the names of the bankers, the six or seven families who took over the 
Fed in 1913. Get the Who's Who and look up all their descendants. And 
then capture all the males. The United States would wake up.
It would be like the movie "The Island," where everyone suddenly 
wakes up and realizes they're being subjected to Freudian / Pavlovian 
mind control. It would be a miracle. It would be freedom!
That's what you have to do to save America. Those are the people you 
need to make as your priority targets if you want to save the United 
States and stop this genocide. The court jesters are the Neocons, 
too, who are the servants of these people.

RENSE: Well, the Neocons are essentially servants of the Zionist / 
Jewish / Rothschild cartel that is pushing the Middle East agenda, as 
much as we can tell.
Now the oil issue, of course, appears to cross over to both sides. It 
appears that Zionism is taking on Russia now, and pushing very hard 
in that respect. The Rockefellers are hard at work in Iran, covertly, 
and Iraq of course overtly, and Afghanistan. That's a simplistic overview.

FULFORD: They need oil to control the world.

RENSE: The Chinese need oil to continue to develop and progress, as 
do the Japanese.

FULFORD: You know what? Actually they figured out that maybe they 
don't need oil. They have these huge plants that are converting coal 
to oil now. To be honest, the Japanese had the technology to make 
fuel from water 30 years ago.
[Bumper music]

RENSE: I think several people have, if you simply spend an hour on 
the Internet and look up taking hydrogen from water and actually 
making it burn. There is a lot of potential out there, which the 
petroleum companies are not too fond of.

FULFORD: Yeah. Actually let me tell you a personal story...

RENSE: Hold on, let's do that in just a minute, Ben, please. We have 
to pause. We'll do the personal story next, with Benjamin Fulford, 
who has just laid out some pretty interesting conditions for an 
alleged offer that perhaps the Illuminati can't afford to refuse. We will see.

RENSE: Okay. Back with you. Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo, is 
with us. Pretty stunning material. All right, Ben, you had a personal 
story you wanted to share. Go ahead.

FULFORD: My great grandfather was G.T. Fulford. He was one of the 
richest men in the world - George Taylor Fulford. You can find him on 
Wikipedia. He was one of the richest men on Earth, and he was the 
largest single shareholder in General Electric.
He was going to finance Nikola Tesla, but he was murdered by the 
Rockefellers in 1905. It was made to look like a car accident.

RENSE: Your grandfather.

FULFORD: Great grandfather.

RENSE: Great grandfather. So really! Wow.

FULFORD: And the family fortune was stolen. My grandfather was only 
three years old at the time. The family fortune was taken over by the 
Rockefellers. My grandfather didn't know how to suspend his assets.
I am telling the Rockefellers right now, they can think of me as the 
ghost of G.T. Fulford, come back over a century - from four 
generations - to get justice.

RENSE: You speak in a very brave and cavalier way.

FULFORD: I've got good people behind me!

RENSE: And as I was going to say, you speak as if you are a man with 
great self-assurance, and you have a lot of friends.

FULFORD: Absolutely. You have 100,000 assassins backing you up, you 
don't have to be a chicken!

RENSE: Well, you don't sound like a chicken.

FULFORD: No. I'm going to get these people if no one else does. If 
they don't agree to my terms, they are doomed. And they know it. They 
have the intelligence agents.
You people out there, you don't know because you don't have access. 
You don't know if I'm lying, if I'm a crazy guy, but they do. People 
in the CIA, the NSA, Mossad, they know I'm not kidding. This society 
is real. And they are moving.
So they realize this is not a bluff. This a promise. They must stop 
their crazy games.
What these people are trying to do - I know it sounds insane. They 
are trying to artificially create Armageddon. They are trying to make 
people believe these are end times, by slaughtering people through 
disease and famine.
I believe they even have, I know this will sound a bit crazy and you 
will start wondering about me, but they have some kind of microwave 
weapon that can heat up underground water near earthquake-prone 
zones, and trigger earthquakes.
RENSE: Oh, I believe it. If that particular technology is true, it's 
probably one of two or three. They can do it with harmonic resonance, 
with sonic-based weapons and devices. There are a lot of ways, 
apparently, to get earthquake faults to move.

FULFORD: So what I'm getting, the feeling is these people are trying 
to artificially create the appearance of end times, just like in the 
Bible, and fool everybody.

RENSE: They seem to be playing to that script.

FULFORD: And you must not be fooled, because this has nothing to do 
with anything spiritual or otherworldly. This is right here on this earth.
And the cults these people represent, they have been known by 
folklore over the years. You have to start with Nimrod, the 
Babylonian tyrant. Then Hammurabi.
Hammurabi is known to the Jews as Abraham - a Babylonian tyrant. A 
slave driver. These people have had a secret sect of slave drivers 
that is almost six thousand years old.
They have very, very sophisticated methods. They use secrecy, murder, 
bribery and ridicule as their main weapons. They have had a very good 
run, but this is checkmate for them, as far as I am concerned.
They are not going to get away with this. They'd better realize it. 
It's game up. They've been exposed. People know about them. They are 
onto their game. And it's not going to work.
All you've got to do is target the Eye. Hollywood - the people in 
Hollywood have been trying to warn the Americans for years! If you 
look at Tolkien's movie, you have this Eye on the top of a mountain. 
Destroy the Eye and save the world.
Or [destroy] the masters. Stanley Kubrick gave up his life to expose 
these people.
So you've got to remember this isn't [associated with] the Jews. The 
Jews are your best friends in fighting these people, because they've 
been their biggest victims over the years.

RENSE: Well, we're talking about Zionists here, not Jews.

FULFORD: Exactly. I'm talking about a specific - well, yeah, you can 
call them Zionists. I think at a higher level it is a very secretive 
sect of people who are pretending they are Gods.

RENSE: What happened to Stanley Kubrick? I don't mean the precise 
cause of death, but where was he going that got him into trouble with 
these people?

FULFORD: It was the movie Eyes Wide Shut, exposing the Masonic 
orgies. They showed that there were people being killed. This is 
probably based on real events.
I haven't done the proper research, but there is an old man who dies 
in Eyes Wide Shut. If I'm not mistaken, the man in the movie died 
exactly the way Stanley Kubrick died in real life, just as he 
finished the movie.
RENSE: It is also suggested that Kubrick was involved in creating the 
- at least some hoaxed Apollo moon footage, and knew all about that. 
His wife has intimated as much since his death.

FULFORD: In 1938, on April Fool's Day, they had the War of the Worlds 
on radio, with Orson Welles. All sorts of people believed it. So, 
they said "Ha! This is a tool we can use. People will believe 
anything if it's on the media."

 Well, I think the media, then, with the work of Edward L. 
Bernays, began its ascendancy. It has become the most powerful tool 
of human oppression, social engineering, programming and mind control 
that has ever been on the planet.

FULFORD: One of the most important instances of mind control is 
association. What they do, for example, with this holocaust stuff, is 
they show you something so horrible that everybody is disgusted. 
Killing innocent women and children in gas chambers, turning people 
into soap, it's just so awful that you hate it. Anyone would.

RENSE: Of course, the soap issue has been completely discounted, by the way.

FULFORD: That's not the point. The point is they fill you with this 
horrible story. Then they associate everything they don't want you to 
think about with that.
So before I woke up to what was happening to me - if somebody tells 
me about a secret cartel of financiers who control the world's 
central banks, I would have instantly said, "Oh, yeah, that's that 
anti-Semitic thing. Oh, you're a Neo-Nazi. You want to kill people. 
Oh my God, you're horrible. I can't talk to you."
And then the conversation shuts down. That's how they do it! That's 
the kind of mind-wash or brain control [they use] through association.

RENSE: The Illuminati controllers have been bleeding the world's 
populace for a long time. They are real good at it. What is it about 
your message that you think their ego will back down enough to take 
seriously? You laid the numbers out there. Is it going to take some 
kind of an example?

FULFORD: I hope not. I really do. Even if you lose one assassin, this 
guy has got a family. He's got people who love him. He's going to be 
a suicide mission for sure.
[Bumper music]
We'd rather not have to do that. And then his family has to be 
supportive. It's not a nice thing to kill people.

RENSE: No, it isn't.

FULFORD: It's really a last resort.

RENSE: All right. Stand by, Ben. We'll take a break and come right 
back with Benjamin Fulford. Again, the Asia-Pacific bureau chief for 
Forbes magazine, for eight years. Take a look on his website, click 
on his article at <>
It's a remarkable conversation. If it is true, of course it changes 
the balance of power dynamics on this planet. Incredible. Time will 
tell. We'll be right back.

RENSE: Okay, we're back. There are, of course, an awful lot of people 
around the world listening right now who will continue to read Henry 
Makow, Ph.D.'s story about Ben Fulford.
We'll have more from Ben at <> And they 
are probably cheering for this, or certainly entertaining this 
concept, this program, with a great deal of guarded optimism, shall 
we say. It would be nice to see that the status quo, which is quite 
clearly hell-bent on creating an Armageddon, could be stopped somehow.
Okay, Ben. A lot of things to touch on. You want to do any follow up 
on anything in particular?

FULFORD: One thing, getting back to G.T. The 20th century was 
supposed to be a century of wonder. Unlimited free electricity.

RENSE: Tesla, of course, was the man who had that, and offered it to 
us, but it was not allowed to be accepted.

FULFORD: That's right. That's part of why they killed my great 
grandfather - he was going to finance Tesla. So they turned it into a 
century of horror. They need war and they need fear to control people.
If things get too peaceful, then they cannot keep things under control.
What has happened - and this is important, this is the big rift, the 
[Rothschild] Global Warming / [Rockefeller] War on Terror thing.
The radical faction, who wants to go ahead with Armageddon, are the 
War on Terror people. They're all a lie, basically. Another faction 
[is saying], "Okay, look. The plan to create a world government, with 
Jerusalem as its capital, is just not going to work right now. It's 
much easier to make the EU a central world government."
The thing you must understand about communism, the EU and even 
capitalism, as it is now practiced in the United States - they are 
all forms of disguising true central control. In other words, it's 
all different forms of Babylonian tyranny.
We can see through that to the essence. And the essence is to look at 
where the money is coming from. Finance.
I was a financial journalist for 20 years, and it took me a long time 
to figure out that finance is just propaganda. What finance really 
means is the human process of deciding what to do in the future. It's 
the idea of "How do we navigate into the future?" And that has been 
stolen from us by these people. That's why they need to control the 
central banks.

RENSE: Well, they want us to feel helpless, of course.

FULFORD: People work for money, and they control the money. That's 
how they control the society. People who say the wrong things get 
fired, or killed, or marginalized. Or, invited in. That's how they 
control. It's through money.
If Jesus Christ were alive today - when Jesus was alive, he went to 
the temple and he overturned the money changers' temple. If he were 
alive today he'd go to the Fed and he'd unplug the mainframe. That's 
what he would do.

RENSE: Unplug the mainframe. Liberate the planet.

FULFORD: Absolutely. They say, "All right, enough of this, we're 
going to figure out a new way."

RENSE: Well, if something doesn't happen soon, we're all going to 
hell in a handbasket. It looks pretty grim, as you well know.

FULFORD: The United States is in a particularly grim situation, but 
fortunately the rest of the world is much freer, and we're going to 
help the United States.

RENSE: I've heard that. We are the black hole of the planet in some 
respects, I guess.

FULFORD: Think about it. The endgame. These people are desperate. 
Cheney, Bush, they have 18 months left. The whole country has turned 
against them. Even the puppets in Congress. People are onto the fact 
that they were put in there by people with money, not by people with votes.

RENSE: They completely turned into something else when they showed up 
in Washington DC. Their constituents no longer matter. The betrayal 
factor here is off the scale! It's unbelievable. The treasonous 
behavior of Congress, the traitorous actions of those at the highest 
levels of government is almost unimaginable.

FULFORD: We have to remember - these people are scared. They are 
being threatened with murder at the highest levels - people like 
Edward Kennedy. These people, they killed General Patton, they killed 
the Kennedys, they killed Martin Luther King. They murder.
Most decent people who want to go into politics think about making 
people's lives better. They don't know how to deal with a gang of 
murderers - especially a very old, sophisticated group of gangsters.

RENSE: That's a very good point. It's gangsters. That's what's 
running the show. You're right.

FULFORD: And that's why you need gangsters to fight gangsters. This 
is where these Asian people come in. They know how to do a gang war. 
The first phase, which is what I have initiated right now, is the 
shouting match. We say, "Look. You'd better listen." And if they 
don't listen, then we go to the next phase.

RENSE: What's the timetable on this, Ben?

FULFORD: I cannot discuss that. You can't let people know what you're 
going to do. But I will tell you something interesting.
There is a force of three thousand ninja assassins. Now these ninjas 
are a two thousand year old cult - a school of martial arts. One of 
their specialties is sneaking into fortified compounds and murdering 
important people. The thing about these ninjas is they are white 
people - they are not Asians - and they are working for the US Special Forces.
They were trained by the Japanese. They understand the true state of 
power in the US, and they are willing to act when the time comes.
So I hope you're listening out there, Mr. Cheney and Mr. Rockefeller. 
We have someone close to each of you. You can be turned into dead 
meat in a matter of hours. I am not bluffing.
And I am hoping it doesn't come to that. I am a decent human being. I 
am a journalist. I do not want any death. Not one.
But if it comes to it, they will all be slaughtered. They will be 
hunted down like beasts. Every one of them will be killed. Until they 
agree to the terms I mentioned before.

RENSE: How does the Chinese government interface with this, if at all?

FULFORD: Well, they have people right up to the highest levels of the 
Chinese government in the society. They do have areas where their 
interests coincide, and one of them, of course, is stopping genocide.
Right now, they are not fighting the Chinese government. They are 
therefore kind of semi-tolerated. Right now there is a state of an 
uneasy truce. But, as I said, they are separate. They have separate 
headquarters and a totally separate history.
When it comes to stopping genocide, they are in total agreement. I am 
sure that the Chinese government's resources could be made available 
to us, if it came to that.

RENSE: Given that your organization - that to which you purport to 
represent - is threatening, apparently, people with death, could that 
not be construed by the Department of Homeland Security - not that I 
expect to hear your knees knocking with fear - as some sort of 
terrorism being issued over this program?

FULFORD: It's not terrorism. It's saying, "If you don't stop killing 
people, if you don't stop killing us, we will have to defend ourselves."
It's not terrorism to defend yourself. It's self-defense. They are 
doing the killing. They are the ones out there murdering people and 
carrying on genocide. They are the ones who are planning this 
incredible mass slaughter, not us.
So if there are any terrorists, you know who they are. It's the 
Illuminati. They are the real terrorists. Everybody knows that by now.
We are trying to stop terrorism. Our point is, we don't want to kill 
a single person. Nobody. Not one.

RENSE: And you have, apparently, presented a method by which that can 
be achieved - without anyone dying.

FULFORD: Think about the one-dollar bill. You have the eye on the 
pyramid. The eye represents the people who kept the human race in the 
job of pyramid building, right? What you have to do - this is very 
important - it is very, very centralized, this thing. Target the eye.
Forget about their flunkies. Forget about their employees, their 
servants. They just have no choice. They are innocent. Even the 
people on the Council of Foreign Relations, the Bilderbergers - most 
of them are decent people who would really not like to be part of 
this, but they had no choice.
So the trick is to go right to the very, very top.

RENSE: Dr. John Coleman (ph), in his book, "Conspirators: Hierarchy 
of the Committee of 300," did name names for the first time years 
ago. The book is in its fourth or fifth edition now. And it was quite 
Now did you turn over a list of people to this secret society at one point?

FULFORD: Oh yeah. There are a lot of these lists in Japan, but 
basically it's all the descendants of the original banking families 
who put together the Fed. It's all the male descendants, okay? They 
won't kill females.
The expanded - the other Illuminati families, you know the names. The 
Warburgs, the Morgans, Schiffs, et cetera - everybody knows the 
names. The Bilderbergers, the Council of Foreign Relations, Skull and 
Bones, Scroll and Key, all these people [have top Illuminati members 
in their groups].
The point is that what they do - the trick is to start at the very 
highest level and work your way down. They don't want to kill 
anybody, if possible. Let's keep it to the minimum, if possible. But, 
if necessary, if it's the only way to stop the killing of hundreds 
and hundreds of millions of people, which is what they're trying to do...

RENSE: Billions.

FULFORD: Billions! Yeah, they are trying to kill billions of people. 
This is not a joke. This is reality!
...Then you have to stop them! You have no other choice. It is 
self-defense. It is not terrorism.

RENSE: In Japan, have you made this public yet, Benjamin, or are you 
doing it here for the first time?

FULFORD: Yes. It has been made public in Japan. They know about it. 
It is in my latest book. It came out about a month ago. There is a 
lot of stuff going on here.
I have been in contact with the Japanese secret government. They are 
cooperating with me.
I repeat. Their point is that they like the US society, they like 
Americans, they like the United States. They don't want to pick a 
fight with America. If there is some way of freeing them from the 
Rockefellers and these Illuminati, they would love that to happen.
That is where they are coming from. So they are cooperating, to a 
certain extent. The negotiations are ongoing as to how to do this.
But the plan I have given them, and I have presented on your website, 
is we make contact with Russia, China, India - countries that are not 
controlled by Illuminati pawns - Latin American countries - everybody 
in the world, basically - we all get together and we say, "Enough is enough."
[Bumper music]
And just like that. It's like pulling down the Iron Curtain, or 
pulling away the curtain that is hiding the Wizard of Oz.

RENSE: Knocking down the Berlin Wall.

FULFORD: Yeah. All it takes is for the people to say, "Wait a minute! 
Enough is enough." Expose these people, show them to the world. Let 
people know who they are and what they are doing. They will be stopped.

RENSE: Right.

FULFORD: The other thing is the lower-down people. For example, the 
people who support a world government based in the EU, they think 
it's about human rights and justice and law.

RENSE: About ten seconds to the break. Real quick.

FULFORD: They are all chumps. The people who support them. Many of 
them. They don't know what's going on.

RENSE: Okay. Stand by, Ben. We'll take a break and come back. Hour 
number three coming up in just a few minutes.

RENSE: Okay, we're back with Benjamin Fulford, former Asia-Pacific 
bureau chief with Forbes magazine for nearly eight years.
A Chinese secret society has issued, through Mr. Fulford, a 
life-or-death ultimatum for the Illuminati to stop the genocide, back 
off and change course - about 180 degrees.
The Chinese also feel, according to Mr. Fulford, that SARS was, in 
fact, a biological weapon deployed to attempt to reduce the Chinese 
population by an extraordinary number of people. It didn't work for a 
variety of reasons, but it was clearly and specifically able to 
affect and infect those of Asian descent.
Again, look at the numbers of people in Canada who died of SARS. You 
can probably do a Google search on pictures of those people and see. 
It's about 95 percent Asian.
Okay. Our conversation has covered some extraordinary information so 
far. We have about another hour to go. There are many places to go, 
but Ben I hear you wanting to say something, so go right ahead.

FULFORD: Sure. I just want to make a point. You know William Shatner, 
the guy who played Captain Kirk on the Starship Enterprise? He was a 
Canadian. And as a Canadian, I would be proud to serve on a US ship 
like Enterprise. You know, "Flying where no man has gone before?" The 
Kennedy America.
That's what the world wants to see again. That's what everybody is 
wishing for. So when I see Americans captured by robber barons, and 
subjected to Freudian / Pavlovian mind control...

RENSE: No better example than September 11th.

FULFORD: Yes. I have to fight to the death to help free my American 
brothers and sisters, if it comes to that.
Everybody wants America to be free from these people, including the 
Americans. When you really come down to it, it is a small number. All 
you have to do is expose them. That's the key. People have to know 
who they are and what they're up to. That's it. It could be like the 
Velvet Revolution - a bloodless end to this.
That's what I'm offering them. And that's what the American people 
should quickly realize. They can do it. They don't have to worry 
about fighting black helicopters or policemen or anything like that. 
These people are just as much victims as everybody else.

RENSE: Now the black helicopters notwithstanding, the American public 
is not going to have to become directly involved in this if what 
you're saying is on the table now. The gauntlet is down, the 
challenge has been made. Americans need to...

FULFORD: That's it. We'll try peaceful methods. So the plan I gave to 
the Japanese government is, we get the Russians, the Chinese, the 
Indians, everybody on Earth, basically, to say "Enough is enough." It 
should just be a matter of announcing the fact that we will not buy 
any more US government bonds until the US government decides to change course.

RENSE: Could the Chinese effectively decimate the American economy at 
this point with the holdings they have, and the control they do have, 
over American economic and business interests?

FULFORD: Of course. There are ten times more dollars circulating 
around the world than the US economy is worth.
If people said, "Okay, we don't believe this dollar thing anymore", 
or better still, if they stopped using oil and started burning water, 
and other fuels, that would end it.
The thing is, I personally believe the US is depending on the armed 
forces to be the greatest force for good in the history of humankind.
It's not who they are, it's the organization. It's the job they've 
been given. They should be out there stopping poverty and 
environmental destruction rather than stealing oil for robber barons.

RENSE: Speaking of robber barons, when Dov Zakheim (ph) was in charge 
of the Pentagon budget, some three TRILLION dollars vanished. No one 
has been able to track that yet. No one is even trying!

FULFORD: There is a huge underground secret budget which they are 
using for this Armageddon plan. People need to find out about this.
They are going to try to put on quite a show, and really try to fool 
everybody, thinking these are end times. That's where I believe that 
money went to - some kind of huge smoke-and-mirrors show, on a global 
scale. It will make 9/11 look like child's play.

RENSE: That's what most people are expecting who are watching this 
carefully. Something that big will have to happen to scare the wits 
out of what is left of American independence into utter subservience 
and domination.
And it probably would work. Given the fact that the electronic media 
is so overwhelmingly oppressive in its own right, and clever, and 

FULFORD: Remember, there are six people who control these media.

RENSE: Six corporations, that's right.

FULFORD: Yeah, but it's six people, really, when you come down to it.
Actually I'd like to take this time now to direct a message to Rupert 
Murdoch and Lord Thompson of Fleet (ph). I strongly suggest to them 
that they confirm, through their own sources, that I am not bluffing 
- that this society is real.
Mr. Murdoch can call anyone senior in the Taiwanese government, for 
example, or Mr. Thompson could ask personal columnists in the Tokyo 
bureau, and they can provide him with the proof.
They know that they would have to either stop applying propaganda to 
the American people, or find a deep hole and hide in it.
They will realize this is not a bluff. These people are real. Mr. 
Murdoch has good Chinese connections. They will realize that the 
attire has changed. They will start providing people with the truth.
Mr. Murdoch, I think he will do whatever the powers-that-be want. He 
doesn't have any personal agenda. If he realizes he will be 
protected, I think he is willing to turn.

RENSE: It's hard to believe Fox News telling us the truth, but yeah, okay.

FULFORD: He says it's his business. He was here in Tokyo a while ago. 
He said, "Yeah, look. I saw a Mossad marketplace. I saw Nice, I saw 
the De Merde (ph), and so I went for it.
I don't think he believes anything Fox News says personally - it's 
just business for him. He does something similar for the Chinese - 
what appeals to Chinese phobia. It's just business for him.

RENSE: You wrote a book about September 11th in Japan. How did it 
sell? Pretty well?

FULFORD: Yeah. 80,000 copies.

RENSE: That's a best-seller six times over back in the States.

FULFORD: It was very influential. There was a big 9/11 conference 
here, and I've had a couple of TV shows about 9/11 here on network 
TV, of all things. The Japanese are much quicker to catch on to stuff 
like this than the Americans. They have been subjected to a different 
type of brain control than the Americans.
What happened after World War II for the Japanese is they were 
subjected to this 'fallen' kind of mind control.
First of all, they were given an inferiority complex towards white 
people. They were made passive. They were made so they didn't have 
opinion. They work hard, and think that America is a wonderful, 
wonderful country.
Any time anyone got too smart... the other thing is they made sure 
there would be no geniuses. This is how they keep Japan under 
control. Then when people do get smart, they either co-opt them or 
they kill them.

RENSE: You're talking about the Rockefellers.

FULFORD: Yeah. They've had to kill at least four Prime Ministers in 
the post-war era.

RENSE: In Henry Makow's article that was one of the most interesting 
claims. Four dead, and over 200, I guess, major Japanese figures.

FULFORD: I've interviewed seven Japanese prime ministers. Captains of 
industry, members of security police, senior gangsters. I have very 
good sources. I have everything on tape. I have enough evidence to 
convict David Rockefeller of at least three murders related to the 
recent takeover of the Japanese banking system.
This is how I got into this. This is why I got so deep inside. I 
followed the trail, all the way up until I actually hit the finance 
minister. That's when suddenly I was given this gold badge, which is 
the analog version of the gold chip I guess they're planning to put 
in there - you know, in their elite servants.
What they've done to the Japanese people is truly horrible. Everyone 
thinks it was a wonderful thing. The Japanese people love the 
American people. They do. But at the same time, they hate the 
Rockefellers, and they think of them as these horrible dictators who 
are tyrants to both the Americans and the Japanese.

RENSE: The other losers of World War II, the German people, have paid 
a terrible price as well, of course.

FULFORD: Well yeah. I learned that from your website. They killed all 
people after the war!

RENSE: Yeah. Millions.

FULFORD: What they did to Germany was absolutely horrible too. They 
like to talk about the holocaust. Right now there are 48 million 
people dying of starvation every year. So many more times the 
holocaust, happening right now! They're not doing anything about it!

RENSE: No, it doesn't even make the papers over here.

FULFORD: The Pentagon, like I said before, can be the greatest force 
for good in human history. All you have to do is give them the job of 
saving the planet.
The amount of money... how I got into this whole thread in the first 
place is I realized the Japanese could end poverty and stop all 
environmental destruction, and have change left over, if they just 
used their surplus to heal the planet.
When I asked them why they didn't, I ended up finding out it was 
because they were a slave people, and they would be murdered if they 
tried to spend their own money that way.
I do believe the people in the Pentagon would love to go and save the 
planet. They would be much happier with that job than killing people 
for robber barons.
[Bumper music]
I'm asking people now. I'm calling for people, loyal Americans, the 
CIA, the NSA, people in the Pentagon: take your country back. Realize 
that the democracy is in danger, and your oath is to the 
Constitution, not to the dictators. Not to the bankers.

RENSE: Well, that's a key expression which I made mention of many 
times, as did thousands of other Americans on this Fourth of July 
just passed - that we should all read the Constitution and the Bill 
of Rights again. Especially the people we voted for and sent to 
Washington to represent our country and our local areas. Back in a 
few minutes with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo.

RENSE: Okay. Talking with Benjamin Fulford. September 11th. We know 
quite a lot about it over here. There is a lot of disinformation, as 
you know, on the Internet. Government agents, agents provocateurs, 
trying to muddy the waters - but we've got a pretty good handle on 
the thing. How did it look to you over there, and what are your 
thoughts about who was behind it - directly, or indirectly, or both?

FULFORD: I think this was something they had planned for a long time.

RENSE: An Illuminati operation, in other words.

FULFORD: Yes. An Illuminati operation.
The thing that really stops most people, who still don't know what 
9/11 is... they say "Wait a minute! This happened to me too. How come 
the New York Times doesn't write about it? Why isn't it on the TV?"

RENSE: Somehow, Americans have got to be shaken out of that stupor 
and understand that those media are controlled by, as you say, 
essentially six people. And that's the real problem here. Opposition 
of the government to the killers, to the gangsters, has no platform. 
They are shut out of the mainstream media.
They have got the Internet, which of course is rampant with all kinds 
of operators and people who are out to do nothing other than slander, 
libel, cause fights and issue false data. So it's a tough one for 
people to get through. Without the Internet, it would probably be over by now.

FULFORD: It is the Internet and websites like yours that help people 
like me figure out what is going on.

RENSE: Well, thank you.

FULFORD: What happened to me was I got exposed to the corruption in 
Japan. I started as a financial journalist, and I realized that all 
the bad debt was controlled by gangsters, which really didn't make 
sense. Hundreds of billions of dollars, controlled by gangsters?
So I went and I started talking to the gangsters - the Japanese 
gangsters. And they told me they were middle men. They take a 30 
percent commission. I said, "How are the billions of dollars 
disappearing somewhere? "
I followed the thread and realized the Japanese government was 
totally corrupt. Everything we were reading about in the Japanese 
newspapers was a lie. I wrote two chapters of a book that was going 
to be so explosive, and it was in English - that I would have to 
either leave Japan or be killed.
I sent them to my agent. The next day I get a call from the 
granddaughter of the Meiji emperor. Out of the blue! She said, "You 
know, you should not get the Yakuza angry." Right?
And she told me that a goddess had called to intervene, and to tell 
me [this]. It turned out that the 'goddess' was the Japanese security 
police. They obviously had been looking at my email. But they said, 
"You don't understand what's really going on." She gave me this Dave 
vonKleist (ph) video, In Plane Site.
As soon as she gave me that, I said, "Oh, no, no, no. This is 
anti-Semitic nonsense. I'm not going to watch this. How can this 
lady, she is a princess - how can she believe stuff like this?"
She kept bugging me, so I watched it. I've been an investigative 
journalist for twenty years. I know the difference between true 
information and BS. So I started a long term of research.
Once I was sure this was a government plot, my next thought was, "Oh 
my God, how could it be so big? This is too huge to comprehend. The 
amount of people that would have to be involved is vast!"
Then the truth is so big, and so horrendous, that people just hide 
from it. I basically think you have to go all the way back, as I 
said, to Hammurabi - the original Babylonian dictator. The cult of 
leadership. The Freemasons, their history goes right back there. It's 
a collective of slave drivers.
These are the people who literally did have people make pyramids. And 
they controlled them by controlling their food supply. And now they 
control them by controlling their money supply.
Their history is so long, and their techniques are so sophisticated. 
Folklore has been aware of these people. They have called them 
different names over the years. Beelzebub. Mammon. Set. Lucifer. Satan.
But there is nothing otherworldly or metaphysical about them. This is 
a real group of people. An ancient sect of Babylonian slave drivers. 
And that's the hard truth. They want to enslave the entire planet. 
That's what they're trying to do - and we must stop them.
People have to know. This is how deep you have to go in history. I 
believe Jesus Christ was a rebel against these people. He was one of 
their enemies, because he said all men are created equal, and free 
before God, and you should love thy neighbor. Stuff like that. And 
take care of the poor.

RENSE: Other great beings have issued the same message, of course, in history.

FULFORD: Absolutely. Mohammed, I think, kicked them out of a huge 
[area] - the Islamic world, basically. Czarist Russia fought them for 
a very long time, and now they are free again. There are a lot of 
free countries. Italy should come out with the pizza (ph) P2 scandal. 
That's a great scandal to look at to see what's going on.

RENSE: People over in the States don't know anything about that. That 
was a monumental development, a monumental watershed in Italian history.
Hammurabi, Abraham, a secret Jewish sect, a Zionist sect becoming an 
Illuminati sect. What about that? How do we... you're going all the 
way back, so...

FULFORD: You have to follow the thread. If you think about what Moses 
did, this is my understanding of it. They dumped a lot of poisonous 
red mineral into the Nile River. And that poisoned the crops. That's 
why you have the story of the Nile running red.
It was a slave revolt. He was... it was a fight between two different 
slave drivers. He was using eco-terrorism. He slaughtered lots of 
Egyptians and eventually lost. They fled into what is now Israel. 
They were then kicked out by the Romans and scattered all over the place.
[Bumper music]

RENSE: Is this the same group, Ben, that has been kicked out by 
virtually every developed society on record?

FULFORD: Yes. The Jews have been enslaved by them, but it's not a 
Jewish thing, really. It's more secret than that. They are hidden 
even from the Jews.

RENSE: When you study World War II, and the involvement of Zionism 
with the holocaust, we see it quite clearly. Stand by just for a 
minute or two. We have to take a break. We will come right back with 
Mr. Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo.

RENSE: Okay. Let's get right back to Mr. Ben Fulford, talking about 
some pretty amazing things. His great grandfather, a benefactor of 
Nikola Tesla, was murdered for his efforts.
Tesla, it is said by some, was kept basically in the last several 
decades of his life, almost a prisoner, in a way. All of his work was 
watched. It was a pretty unfortunate way to end a brilliant life like 
that, for one of the great men in history.

FULFORD: Yes. The 20th century was a total tragedy. It should have 
been... humanity was on the verge of something like a Cambrian explosion.
When you have unlimited free energy, the possibilities are so 
mind-boggling that you can't even fully understand. It would be just 
wonderful. It would be like everyone is a billionaire!

RENSE: Well, the potential is there, you're right, to create the 
beginning, and in fact establish a Golden Age for humanity in the 
last century. But instead, how many millions, a hundred million died 
in wars? At least.

FULFORD: At least 100 million. The Americans killed I don't know how 
many tens of millions after the war. And more importantly, they 
suppressed technology.

RENSE: Oh, there is so much there. We have had videos recently, Ben, 
of one man. He's done a television station. He was able to pull 
hydrogen right out of salt water and burn it right on the spot. The 
energy is all there.

FULFORD: Yes. The Japanese had that technology 30 years ago!

RENSE: Right.

FULFORD: Another technology they have, that is being suppressed, is 
you can generate unlimited energy by taking advantage of the 
difference in temperature between the surface of the ocean and the bottom.

RENSE: That's called geothermal exchange. Right.

FULFORD: Yes. You pump methane down to the bottom of the ocean. It 
turns into liquid. Then it comes up and it turns into gas again, and 
you get infinite electricity. And rivers run fresh water.

RENSE: And the same thing on land with geothermal. But yeah, there 
are so many out there, and they are clearly all being mothballed and 
locked away. They have no plans for us other than slavery. That's their plan!

FULFORD: If you talk to that guy who burned water in Florida, just 
see what's happened to him since. I think he's had some pretty 
troubling visitors.

RENSE: They almost all seemingly do. Some have died unusually early 
deaths as well. Others just vanish and you hope they have not been 
killed. There are so many stories I have seen like this over the 
years. They were pulling electricity out of the ground in the 1870s 
and 80s, for goodness sakes. I mean, it's there.

FULFORD: Yeah. It's a crime. They are trying to lobotomize the human 
race and stop human progress.

RENSE: They're doing a pretty good job of it. So far the Chinese, by 
the way, had, as you know - I don't know if you remember the year. I 
think it was about 2001. They had a goal of putting a television set 
in every household in China - because that is the instrument of 
oppression, of manipulation, of control, of conditioning, of shaping, 
of molding.

FULFORD: Sure. But you know what? The Chinese have their own idea for 
democracy. You cannot totally write it off. What they are saying is 
the democracy using paper every four years is kind of low-tech and 
out of date.
You can have real-time, live democracy on the Internet, through 
opinion polls and chat rooms. That's a much better way of making sure 
public opinion is reflected in public policy.

RENSE: Well, that's electronic. It's all something that can be 
manipulated if it is electronic. But, you raise a good point. And if 
it were somehow guaranteed to be legitimate, it would be fascinating.
Let me ask you a question. What do you and your backers think of 
Vladimir Putin and Russia standing tall against the Rothschilds over 
the issue of the missiles in Europe and other East-West problems?
They have refused now to extradite the Russian businessman who the 
British - and Berezovsky, the Rothschilds - say was the murderer of 
Litivinenko with Polonium 210. They want to extradite the man.
So there are really some very, very big power dynamics at work with 
respect to Russia, their new technology, and Vladimir Putin, who is 
stepping down next year, although many Russians would prefer he stay, 
I would suggest. But what do you think of it?

FULFORD: I think what he's done is great. He kicked out Berezovsky.
By the way, my friend and the former Forbes Moscow bureau chief was 
shot ten times in Russia, taken to the hospital and died in the 
elevator. The elevator stopped, and it was stuck for eight minutes. 
That's where he died - and he was investigating Berezovsky before he 
died. We don't know if Berezovsky did it, but I suspect him.
These were all Rockefeller / Rothschild proxies. Berezovsky, 
Khorokovsky (ph), and Eslin (ph). By kicking them out, he freed 
Russia. This is a huge accomplishment.
There was a Japanese politician by the name of Koki Ishii, who 
married a Russian woman and was in close with the Russian government. 
He was stabbed through the heart with a sword in front of his house. 
But before he died, he was given a manuscript by Putin's former boss 
in the KGB. He wanted it translated into Japanese, to let people know 
what happened in Russia - how they freed [their country] from these 
Although the book hasn't been translated into Japanese yet, his 
daughter Tanya conveyed the gist of it to me. So I know that Putin is 
not an Illuminati agent.
We will be making contact with Putin later, and maybe he will hear 
through this that we have a secret, six million man army that is 
willing to align with him to put an end to this madness.

RENSE: Well, quite clearly the Rothschilds and the Illuminati view 
Russia as the prize that got away, and they want it back.
I think the ejection of the oligarchs that you've touched on, that 
I've touched on and described in great detail with guests on this 
program for a long time now - is one of the most important 
geo-political, socio-cultural, national issues of our time.
I mean, this is a monumental change, what happened in Russia!

FULFORD: Yeah. They have been free for the first time since 1917!

RENSE: And they remember who enslaved them, and who ground the life 
out of them for nearly the better part of a century. And they don't 
like those people at all.

FULFORD: Yeah. And we're going to ally with them. The other thing is 
I believe the Japanese are also about to kick them out. And that will 
be it. It will be the end for these people. I believe we are at the endgame.

RENSE: That goes hand in hand with what you're saying about "they're 

 Yes. If these people end, I think literally it would be such 
a big change that it would be worth calling it the New Age. It really 
would, because humanity would suddenly have so much potential freed. 
These people, they are trying to lobotomize and suppress technology; 
they distort academics and science.
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They fund all the academics to publish their propaganda, and 
ostracize those who don't.
When we start reading New Scientist magazine, which is an orthodox 
science magazine, about congressmen getting involved in trying to 
stop someone who is researching desktop fusion, you realize something 
is very wrong. It's like Galileo being called up in front of the Inquisition.
What these people are doing is not only criminal, it's stupid! They 
could be so much richer than they are now, and so much more powerful, 
just by releasing all human potential.

RENSE: What they're doing is essentially killing the goose that is 
laying the golden eggs for them. Your point is well taken. Stand by, 
Ben, we'll take a break, and come right back in just a few minutes.

RENSE: Okay. We're back. Ben, anybody who studies the larger issues 
of "pulling the big scam" comes up with one of the most prominent 
potential scenarios being the ET card, or the extraterrestrial 
invasion trump card. The fake ET invasion, with some advanced technology.
What do you know about... and anyone, I should hasten to add, who has 
studied the issue of ET visitation honestly and objectively will come 
away with the conclusion that it is quite obvious we are being 
visited routinely and regularly by any number of different 
intelligent beings, races, species. What is your take on it over there?

 There is a guy who did the research years ago who said the 
Universe is 14 billion years old, and it should have been filled up 
with aliens long ago.
I am assuming, if I were an ET and I saw the planet Earth, I would 
quarantine it.

RENSE: [Laughs] Or bring tourists here for a laugh, yeah.

 But yeah, it's too dangerous. Also, it's a precious little 
ecosystem, and they don't want to interfere. They want to let it 
evolve according to its own wishes, but they would love humanity to 
free themselves.
Now the Japanese Freemasons, who invited me to join, said there was a 
planned rival of a fleet of UFOs. It sounded, to me, crazy - the 
Rockefellers, you know, were going to secretly manufacture this fleet 
of UFOs to fake an Armageddon and alien landing scenario.
So I would assume, if there are aliens out there watching us, they 
feel sorry for us. They are hoping, cheering for us, hoping we can 
get rid of these bastards. And then they will think that maybe the 
Earth is safe enough that they can end the quarantine. That would be 
my take on it. But I am not an expert in this field.

RENSE: I understand. It is a potential manipulating device that has 
been talked about for years.

FULFORD: I interviewed [Admiral] Bobby Inman, former head of the NSA. 
I asked him about the Rockefellers and the secret societies. Right 
away, he said, "Are you a UFO guy?"

RENSE: That was one of the first things he said to you?

FULFORD: Yeah! I wasn't asking him about that. I was asking him about 
the Rockefellers, the secret societies and the NSA, and their 
relationship - and he says, "Are you a UFO guy?"
So I think what they try to do is they try to put some really wacky 
ideas [out there] and pack them all together with the real stuff, to 
make people not believe it. So this stuff about reptilian people that 
David Icke is pushing, I think that's disinformation made to turn 
most people off from this whole idea that there is a vast conspiracy.
So I try to stay away from that, and stick to the planet Earth and 
what I can see right in front of me. When the aliens come, if they 
come, then it will be known to everybody.

RENSE: It is also known that the Chinese have an extraordinary number 
of people who are actively investigating this particular issue. I 
think one organization has over 50 thousand members. So they take it 
very seriously over there.

FULFORD: Here in Japan too. There are a lot of our people who - there 
is a place near Mount Fuji where they go to watch UFOs. They can see 
a lot of them. There are a lot of weird movies. I think there is a 
military secret testing ground there too, where they can see some of these.
Remember, they also use the UFO story to hide...

RENSE: All kinds of technology. It's a perfect screen.

FULFORD: Sure. The Stealth planes they were flying for 20 years 
before they announced them to the public. Who knows what they have 
got? So you have to be very careful with this stuff. I try to make 
sure that I talk in a way within the parameters of people in the mainstream...

RENSE: You have to. If you're going to be a smart and effective 
journalist, you have to.
What else did Inman say? He, of course, of the SAIC fame. That's 
CIA's backwards, with an S. That's the corporation he was in.

FULFORD: Interesting. He said a lot of stuff. He was a member of the 
Trilateral Commission. This comes up in a lot of these conspiracy 
theories. I've talked to members of the Trilateral Commission.
What happened was that Bilderberg was racist. So the Rockefellers 
said "We need something where we can talk to the Japanese in secret 
too." The Bilderbergers didn't want them in their club, which was a 
white man's club. So they set up this other one.
But the Japanese who were members tell me they wouldn't even listen 
to their advice anyway. So it is kind of dysfunctional, the 
Trilateral Commission. Inman himself, he told me, "I was a member, 
but it was pointless. It was powerless, so I quit."

RENSE: Really!

FULFORD: Yeah. But he said, "I am also a member of the Bohemian 
Grove. Yeah, I go there every year and I give them my big spiel. We 
go there to have fun. What's the harm?" That's the story he's giving 
me. Of course he won't tell me what he said in his spiel, you know.

RENSE: Or talk about the owl, or the Cremation of Care, or any of the 
other rituals.

FULFORD: He revealed their whole scenario of bioterrorism and starvation...

RENSE: What did he say about bioterrorism? Did he say it was a viable 
thing and they were worried about it, or was he...

FULFORD: It was something they were worried about in the future, 
together with starvation, you know?

RENSE: Hell, they could starve people right now if they want to!

FULFORD: Well, Africa's got this new wheat blight that is destroying 
all their...

RENSE: Ah, listen. Monsanto and it's terminator seeds will make the 
world its instant prisoner. Instant. And they're pushing it through 
now. You have to buy the Monsanto seed every year, because your crops 
can no longer seed themselves. Pretty clever control.
Then you've got genetic modification of crops, which we know now is 
catastrophic for the health of laboratory rats and, in all 
likelihood, people. The evidence continues to pile up about that. The 
Western diet is a fatal diet, over time, for anybody who engages in 
it, or virtually anyone. We know about all these things.
What about chemtrails and the spraying of the sky? We have not seen 
any photographs ever of chemtrails from China, from Russia or from India.

FULFORD: There's none in Japan either. They won't let 'em.

RENSE: All right. You know about that. So you know about that, and 
you just said the Japanese won't allow it.

FULFORD: That's right.

RENSE: Okay.

FULFORD: They don't have that problem out here. But they do have a 
lot of hormones pumped into their food supply, making men impotent.

RENSE: There are so many phyto-estrogens in processed food now, 
processed soy and all kinds of foods that are causing all kinds of 
problems in humans, and certainly in the amphibian world as we know.

FULFORD: You heard the story about Orientals having a small 
what-cha-ma-call it. They put something in the makeup that women wore 
here which leads the children to be born - the males - with small genitalia.

RENSE: Really?

FULFORD: They've been actually trying to emasculate these people, 
filling their systems with female hormones.

RENSE: It's said that they won't need the act of sex to procreate in 
the near future anyhow. They'll just grow it in a laboratory, 
whatever they want. If there's anyone around at that point anyhow.
So without your people being able to pull off their ultimatum - I'm 
not saying they can or can't, I'm saying without that happening, it 
would seem that the planet is in store for a hell of a population 
reduction, continued environmental rape, pillage, plunder and 
looting, and a potential complete collapse of the Earth's ecosystems.

FULFORD: Yes. That's what these people are doing. And they think they 
are environmentalists. The way they want to preserve the environment 
is by getting rid of excess people and creating wilderness zones.

RENSE: That's what Prince Philip said. If he could come back and 
reincarnate as something, you know the story. [He would be a lethal virus.]

FULFORD: You know, these people are very high [ranking]. I'll send 
you later, I have a flowchart of the Illuminati power structure.
Just to get back to that whole thing of the people, once they were 
spread around by the Romans, the secret society, they had useless 
skills. Emperors loved to build monuments, and these people were 
monument builders. And they were good at accounting, controlling the finances.
So wherever they went, they made themselves favored with kings. So 
their influence is everywhere. They had their secret society. And 
again, this has nothing to do with Jews. This is a secret satanic 
society, whose members are atheists.

RENSE: Arch-atheists.

FULFORD: They got control of some people in central Asia called the Khazars.

RENSE: Oh yeah. I know they adopted Judaism in the ninth century. I 
know the story.

FULFORD: They were attacked by the Mongols and the Russians, and 
their elite. Part of them flooded into Europe...

RENSE: China, and the rest went into Europe. They split, pretty much.

FULFORD: Right. And the ones who went into Europe eventually 
intermarried with the royal families. They got their big break when 
they started financing all the royal families against Napoleon. They 
since intermarried with all the older aristocracy, and have this 
group of interbred families. And that's the Illuminati.
Their number one man is David Rockefeller. Number two and three are 
Philip Rothschild and Jay Rockefeller. Just remember those three 
names at the very least. Don't forget David, Lord Carollton (ph) in 
England. We all know who they are. That's the thing about them.

RENSE: We have just two minutes. What is the role of the Catholic 
Church in all of this, if any?

FULFORD: I believe the Catholic Church has been fighting them. I went 
to a Jesuit university. These guys wear second-hand clothing and live 
in shaggy apartments. The Freemasons I've met all have huge fortunes, 
and look like pigs. That tells me a lot.
I think the Catholic Church has been fighting them, and I think 
they'll be an important ally with Russia.

RENSE: Well, I don't know. It's interesting to see them talking about 
Tony Blair's formal conversion to Catholicism, and [how] the Pope is 
going to name him to be the Papal envoy for peace in Jerusalem. If 
there's any truth to that story, which was all widely circulated, 
that's getting pretty weird.

FULFORD: The Roman Catholic Church is a huge organization with many 
factions. I'm sure they are heavily infiltrated.

RENSE: Mm hm.

FULFORD: But I do not believe the entire institution is corrupted. 
But I don't know. I'm not a Catholic. My parents are atheist, I am 
agnostic. [Actually] I'm not agnostic; I believe God is too big to 
fit into any particular religion.

RENSE: Well, you bet. I'll second that. We're just about out of time, 
Ben. Anything you want to leave us with on this visit tonight?

FULFORD: Yes. Just remember - these people are for real and just 
remember. Get the eye. That's the secret. Grab the eye and humanity 
will be free. That's the message.

RENSE: All right. Thank you very much, Ben Fulford, for being here. I 
look forward to another conversation. If I can help you, let me know.

FULFORD: Thanks. It has been a great honor.

RENSE: Thank you sir. Good night.


RENSE: Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. There's a conversation to 
remember. Do read Henry Makow, Ph.D.'s article at <> Just think about it.
As I often say, there is a lot to think about. And that is certainly 
something unique and something I've not heard before.
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Again, it merits revisiting that probably more than a few of you out 
there are saying, "Wouldn't that be nice if everything could change, 
with no one having to die?"  Okay. We'll be back in 21 hours...